I do know that I would not spend money on a battery replacement because of this issue, were it impacting my car. Even a cheap battery (let us say $5k) would have to be correcting a really serious charge rate degradation for it to be worthwhile for me. I can handle an extra hour on my annual road trip a few years down the road. Of course YMMV and I agree that it would be very nice if Tesla offered pack upgrades in the future. I can dream for a 120 pack five years down the road.
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GTKAZ
Member
I have used Tesla Superchargers at least 50 times with my 100KW battery and so far I haven't noticed any throttling. Only issue I found was at one busy supercharger my KW dropped to 60-70 even though nobody was parked next to me in the shared spot. For now I consider that an anomaly. I'll drive another 2500 mile trip starting next week using purely superchargers so we'll see how it does then.
It is definitely worth pointing out that the throttling doesn't always affect the peak values.
On a 90 pack that I'm reasonably certain was throttled (60k miles on the pack, mostly supercharging), it would peak at ~115kW, then within 1-2 minutes drop to 60kW or less and hold there for the entire charge session. Unplugging and replugging would get a new peak, then a quick taper down.
On a 90 pack that I'm reasonably certain was throttled (60k miles on the pack, mostly supercharging), it would peak at ~115kW, then within 1-2 minutes drop to 60kW or less and hold there for the entire charge session. Unplugging and replugging would get a new peak, then a quick taper down.
Are you sure that's not a symptom of degradation in so far as the BMS peaks unthrottled and then calibrates based on cell performance? DCFC throttling is a hard counter as far as I know that when it's active, it limits the peak to whatever it's set to and tapers under that peak. That's the behavior I had on my packs and the anecdotal evidence from others seems to mirror that.
You are seeing different behavior? Any way you could get your pack to a friendly service tech that can tell you if the DCFC throttle flag is set? Or you, being you, can you check yourself?
You are seeing different behavior? Any way you could get your pack to a friendly service tech that can tell you if the DCFC throttle flag is set? Or you, being you, can you check yourself?
When I see behavior like that I always assume I'm hitting a thermal limit somewhere in the system, like a worn cable or the pack itself overheating. I've had sessions like that but then gone back to sessions that held over 90 well up into the upper end of the pack in my car.
I think it was an overly cautious adjusted safety feature that got fixed. I remember many different cars in different weather and temperature conditions and at random locations got that. Me included. It was going on for a few months. Now I don't see that any more at all and I don't see anyone still writing about it. I doubt it was a hardware issue because nothing on my car got changed or fixed. I still see some variation in the charge speed but it's more or less the same taper curve just either slightly higher or lower.
Agree. Only times I’ve observed that behavior, it was due to the connector overheating. Hasn’t happened again in the past 6 months though so I suspect Tesla changed the connector design.
That is a reminder that Tesla keeps trying to make the tech better, while not being great at communication around current issues.
There should have been given the level of degradation. Also the newest leaf is throttled. There was just a big article about it.
I may have posted this way up-thread, I've certainly mentioned it before, so apologies if I'm being repetitive.
Agree, @DarkMatter. When trying to decide in late 2013 whether to take the leap of faith into a) EV's, and b) a very expensive long-range EV, my reasoning was thus
- At the time, Roadsters had 5-7 years on the road, and the "worst" battery degradation measured still had more than 90%
- I knew that Tesla had put a lot more research into Model S battery management since the Roadster
- The S85 had a range of 425km/265mi new; if degradation after 8-15 years was as bad as 80% that would reduce range to 320km
- OTOH, the supercharger locations in North America were increasing like gangbusters, so the likelihood of needing more than 320km on a road trip was reducing rapidly
- Battery prices were likely to reduce, so if I decided after 10 years that 320km wasn't enough, I would likely be able to replace the battery for similar cost of replacing an IC engine (i.e., $5k-$10k). Note that's a big "if"... 320km may be all I need even for long trips.
Given all that, I decided to take the leap and think of the S as my "permanent car". Current results: 4+ years in, 100,000km+, max range is ~406km or 4.5% degradation, and it's been at 4.5% for the last two years or so. So performance is much better than the poorer cases I was imagining, battery prices are still (presumably) dropping, and I still love how the car drives especially on long trips.
I’ve previously posted on this thread updating my experiences with my 75D. Here’s my current status:
Mileage: 60000
Max rated range: 241 Miles (was 257 originally - never saw 259)
Rated range taper: stable at current level since -44k Miles
Supercharger peak charge rate: 98kW
I have not seen any reduction in peak charge rate or a faster taper at SCs . 98kW is the max that the 75D battery does .
Mileage: 60000
Max rated range: 241 Miles (was 257 originally - never saw 259)
Rated range taper: stable at current level since -44k Miles
Supercharger peak charge rate: 98kW
I have not seen any reduction in peak charge rate or a faster taper at SCs . 98kW is the max that the 75D battery does .
Interesting that you aren’t seeing it throttle. That is a pretty steep drop in rated range for only 60 K.
It's a 6% drop . Well within normal range, and it's been stable there after the initial drop - it's been at the current level for about 15-20K miles now . My usage is also not walking-on-eggshells. I charge to 90% by default. Whenever I wanted - which is dozens of times - I've charged to 100% . I've charged to 100% and left it there for 1-2 days, because I forgot and didn't care. I've run it down to 5% .
With a young family at home, I'm rarely able to keep track of 'being nice' to the car, and yet the car handles my 'abuse' relatively well. That 6% drop in max rated range is the sum total of general misuse as far as accepted practice goes, rather than being super careful on my part.
Here's further perspective of it - I drive the car at 70-75mph on the freeway. I get 96-99% of rated range at that speed. I've regularly done 100-120 mile trips at the end of which I've used 105-125 miles in rated range. If I kept to 65, I expect to get substantially more.
So, my interpretation of rated range is this: the rated range I'm getting from the car matches my driving habits really well. I could drive at the posted speed and get better than rated range. Rated range to me is 'what I'd get doing 73-75', not the range at 65.
That's quite close to my not-very-well-measured experience as well. Up to about 75mph the rated range is pretty close, and even better when my wife forces me to stay around 65 (ha!).
rxlawdude
Active Member
rxlawdude
Active Member
I'm not familiar with any variants of the 70, other than the software limited 75kWh batteries that were put in during the transition to the S75/75D. Those should, if anything, charge faster due to not hitting their actual ceiling charge.
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