My Two Week Review - Heading towards 300,000 Miles

Hi All,

I really appriciated this forum for all the help and guidance as I was looking to make my purchase. I’ve been the proud owner of a 2023 Model Y LR for just over 2.5 weeks (Yep, weeks). I have logged about 2,500 miles. I drive over 30,000 miles per year, mostly for work. I live in cold Wisconsin so am interested in what the reality of winter driving will be but read enough feedback on this forum to move forward with my purchase.

I was planning to purchase a Toyota Camry XSE Hybrid until I switched to the Model Y thanks to the government tax incentive and Elon lowering the price. My numbers are subject to questioning but after building a spreadsheet including payments, fuel, maintenance, insurance, etc. I concluded that the Tesla was $28 per month cheaper than the Camry would have been…….over 10 years.

I know I could have driven the Camry 300,000 and for at least 10 years. Not sure I can do that with the Model Y, but gonna try.

So here are my thoughts, surprises, and disappointments.

Thoughts:
- I REALLY like this car. The tech is amazing. I don’t seem to have any of the build quality issues that some have had. (I have historically driven Corolla’s, so this is a step up for me.)
- The power is amazing. Just amazing.
- The super charger network (even in Wisconsin) is really good. They are everywhere I need them to be.

Surprises:
- I knew charging at home was going to save me money, but was surprised to find out that a full charge is less than $10. That’s great!
- Because of my long distance driving I’m simply going to have to charge at a super charge 3-4 times a week just to get home. I will have to charge to 100% at home, then use a super charger for 5-15 minutes. This is going to significantly cut into my estimated savings. Still cheaper than gas, but not nearly as much as I had hoped. For those that can charge almost exclusively at home, this is great.
- I got caught in a rainstorm and it dramatically reduced my range. I was surprised by the almost 5% loss in range just from 15-20 minutes of rain.


Disappointments:
- Super Charging is expensive. Based on 44 MPG (had I purchased the Camry Hybrid) my recent 850 mile trip to Ohio only saved me $10. I paid $60 in SC fees and would have paid $70 in gas.
- The lack of USS was known to me, but I remain disappointed. I bought the car anyway. I’m looking forward to updates that will hopefully improve some of the missing features I paid for.

Am I nervous about winter, yes. Am I glad I made the purchase, yes, so far. Do I like the car, yes!

I’m developing weird charging habits, probably uncessarily.

I arrive home and charge to 50%. Then set it to charge to the desired percentage the next morning when I need to go. Each day is different, so I’m not able to set it to one number and leave it.

I also feel I’m doing the two hardest things on the battery, but out of necessity for my lifestyle. I will charge it to 100% 2-4 times per week and leave the house almost immediately. I still will need to use a supercharger 2-4 times a week as well. This wasn’t what I hoped to do, but it is my reality.

Anyway, love the car. Hope things continue to go well.

oh, truck threw a rock and cracked my windshield on day 10 of ownership. Haha /sigh/

"0 Tesla Model Y 4" by Benespit is licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0.
Admin note: Imaged added for Blog Feed thumbnail

 

[Tha_Ape]

If you use Autopilot, the "quality of life" while driving as compared to any other ICE car should offset any missing financial savings you hoped for.
Its just mind-blowing for me, even with its kinks im sure you read about

The nags ruin it for me. I had a Prius Prime with a 3rd party openpilot add-on. It was 100% hands off and watched your face/ eyes. Could literally leave your hands on the arm rests and relax on the highway. It was AMAZING for those multi- hour drives on the interstate.

The Tesla constantly nags every minute or so and there's a fine line between applying enough torque for the nags to go away and disabling AP by putting in too much. It's better than no AP, but nowhere near as relaxing as what I had before (an $800 add-on to the Toyota).

I guess we can blame that on all the idiots who hopped into the back seat on earlier versions of AP

 

[Johnny Vector]

I would recommend only charging to 95% or even 90% for your long trips. That extra Supercharging is what, an extra dollar and a half? And the extra time is negligible because the charging happens at a low state of charge where it charges really fast. You can use A Better Route Planner to check the difference in trip time comparing starting at 90% vs. 100%. Probably about 2 minutes. So for 2 minutes and $1.50 you get full regen even at the beginning, and it's easier on your battery. Save the 100% charges for when it's winter and you need that extra distance.

 

[fiehlsport]

Charge to 100% when you think you need to - it isn't harming anything because you're not letting it dwell there for extended periods. You're using it the safest way possible. The battery truly doesn't care. Keeping it plugged in at 100% for weeks is another story. If you need 100% for your lifestyle, do it. You're using the car how you need to.

I do agree with @Johnny Vector on the strategy to lower it slightly on long trips where you'll have to Supercharge anyways, since you'll get faster charging speeds at a lower SoC between chargers.

 

[Nemy]

ICE maintenence costs are often over exaggerated on EV forums.

I spent $35/yr on oil changes for my Prius, let's say it's a "regular" car, make that $70. No major maintenance needed until 100k (+8yrs generally) which cost me $240 for my Prius. So a whopping $30/yr ($65 total) for a hybrid Prius.

This is also very case specific. Because a modern Prius under warranty vs EV is going to be a lot different than the 99 Outback that I made the switch from.

It's also a lot different if you drive alot and use synthetic oil. Then factor in head gaskets, timing belts, fuel pumps, radiator flushes etc. and all of that increases the gap. Gas is still the primary savings, and the ultimate goal of switching, but there's a lot more that people either don't do with their ICE or haven't had to do yet. The other hidden "cost" is time spent doing maintenance or waiting in a lobby.

 

[father_of_6]

I don't honestly think there is any monetary savings in owning one.

I believe this is just because Tesla is still selling their vehicles at a premium price. For sure, fuel and maintenance are cheaper on an EV. I suspect in a decade we'll see $10k entry level EVs that'll really change the financial equation.

In the long run, transitioning to EVs will lead to much lower transportation costs for everyone.

One last thing... these numbers all disregard the costs of the long term negative health effects of internal combustion.

 

[Konicom04]

The nags ruin it for me. I had a Prius Prime with a 3rd party openpilot add-on. It was 100% hands off and watched your face/ eyes. Could literally leave your hands on the arm rests and relax on the highway. It was AMAZING for those multi- hour drives on the interstate.

The Tesla constantly nags every minute or so and there's a fine line between applying enough torque for the nags to go away and disabling AP by putting in too much. It's better than no AP, but nowhere near as relaxing as what I had before (an $800 add-on to the Toyota).

I guess we can blame that on all the idiots who hopped into the back seat on earlier versions of AP

I actually have a method that practically eliminates the nags.
Resting one of my hands lightly - literally the weight of my arm hanging on the steering wheel by one finger, while the elbow rests on the center console
Never get nags

 

[ajstan]

Please keep us updated on the winter commute. Wondering how much of a difference it would be with Battery drain during the cold weather vs Summer.

For a general estimate, in my first year in Northern Ohio, my overall average for 12,900 miles was 275 Wh/mi, averaging around 255-260 Wh/mi in the warmer months and 290-295 Wh/mi in the colder months. Similar mix of local, urban highway (60-70MPH) and open highway (70-80MPH) driving.

 

[Tha_Ape]

I actually have a method that practically eliminates the nags.
Resting one of my hands lightly - literally the weight of my arm hanging on the steering wheel by one finger, while the elbow rests on the center console
Never get nags

I've got a long trip coming up, I'm gonna try it. I guess the key is getting the right position

 

[Konicom04]

I believe this is just because Tesla is still selling their vehicles at a premium price. For sure, fuel and maintenance are cheaper on an EV. I suspect in a decade we'll see $10k entry level EVs that'll really change the financial equation.

In the long run, transitioning to EVs will lead to much lower transportation costs for everyone.

One last thing... these numbers all disregard the costs of the long term negative health effects of internal combustion.

Im pretty sure by the time EV are mainstream, the electricity cost will be 4x higher making the ownership

I've got a long trip coming up, I'm gonna try it. I guess the key is getting the right position

Correct,
For me its no trouble at all, and don't have to hold the wheel ALL the time. Im fully free to go about my looking around, and groping my wife as long as I remember to tend to that jealous wheel.

 

[Iron]

That $70 number for gas is highly suspect....

I went from paying roughly $70/wk in my V8 Dodge truck, to roughly $70 charging over 6 months in my Tesla.

Aside from Tesla charging it before delivery, it's never been supercharged.

 

[Art84]

I spent $35/yr on oil changes for my Prius, let's say it's a "regular" car, make that $70. No major maintenance needed until 100k (+8yrs generally) which cost me $240 for my Prius. So a whopping $30/yr ($65 total) for a hybrid Prius.

I spent about that much on 2 airfilters and a can of Kool-it for my Model Y.

I think it's not fair to compare $35K Prius with $55K Model Y.
Cheaper ICE cars always have cheaper maintenance costs.
Need to take similar cars by class and by price.

When I had Volvo, a simple oil change at the official dealer was around $130-150. Break pad replacement with a rotor resurface cost almost $500. The Volvo genuine pads was the biggest expense. And I sold that car with 86K when turbine began to burn oil and transmission had strange sounds on idle. I didn't want to wait for that repair to happen..

 

[gad1976]

I went from paying roughly $70/wk in my V8 Dodge truck, to roughly $70 charging over 6 months in my Tesla.

Aside from Tesla charging it before delivery, it's never been supercharged.

I'm jealous. Wish I could avoid supercharging for this reason.

 

[gad1976]

Nerd Time

So, here it is, my estimation, as best I can figure, of the long term costs of a Tesla MYLR vs the Toyota Camry Hybrid XSE. I was planning to buy the Camry Hybrid then at the last minute switched to the Model Y. This is why I have chosen this car as my comparison. The XSE Camry has pretty much every bell and whistle that Toyota offers.

INFLATION - I didn't account for inflation in this spreadsheet. Simply didn't know how and I figure they would both raise at the same rate.

ELECTRIC - I already can tell my electric estimate is low. Supercharging is more expensive than I realized.

GAS - I did my gas calculations at $3.50 per gallon and 44 mpg. That is normal here in Wisconsin, but who knows what will happen over the next 10 years.

INSURANCE - I was low on my estimate for Tesla insurance. It looks like it'll be closer to $24,000 of insurance over 10 years.

EXTRA MAINTENANCE - I have NO IDEA how to calculate this. I have driven three Toyotas to almost 400,000 miles with limited maintenance issues until 300,000. So I'm pretending that both of these cars will make it to 300,000 with limited maintenance issues. I know I'm dreaming, but I didn't know how to account for it in this spreadsheet.

CONCLUSIONS - In the unlikely event that my calculations are correct, I would save $2693.57 over 10 years by driving a Tesla MYLR rather than the XSE Hybrid Camry.

Or $22.45 per month over the next 10 years.



Unquestionably this projection is full of holes, but it was as close to an educated guess as I could get to help make my decision. I like the Tesla better and decided it might be a wash. If the Tesla can get close to 300,000 miles like I am convinced the Camry could have, then I'll be happy. If it doesn't... well... it was a fun ride. I decided to take the gamble.

 

[Lartymarf]

ICE maintenence costs are often over exaggerated on EV forums.

I spent $35/yr on oil changes for my Prius, let's say it's a "regular" car, make that $70. No major maintenance needed until 100k (+8yrs generally) which cost me $240 for my Prius. So a whopping $30/yr ($65 total) for a hybrid Prius.

I spent about that much on 2 airfilters and a can of Kool-it for my Model Y.

I think the EV will be cheaper in the long run, but it's not saving you "$1000s", more like $100yr max in maintenance. It's in the noise.

Where you DO save money is on gas, but me coming from a plug in Prius, even that savings is minimal. For people coming from gas guzzlers that require premium fuel, it's likely more significant. But standard maintenence in modern ICE cars isn't really that much.

Also, don't forget, for regular gas vehicles, the battery also needs to be replaced every 3 years (average) and they cost between $100 to $200, and add labor if the owner asks a shop or dealer to install. More expensive for BMWs and Mercedes vs Japanese brands.

 

[TesraY]

Like others have said for EV v ICE maintenance costs/running costs it depends on which ICE. For me the Tesla saves a lot more and has way less maintenance (so far) plus I love the tech

My N62 powered X5 (V8) is garbage on fuel ~10mpg in NYC requiring premium fuel ~$4.40 per gallon. Maintenance items over the years probably exceeded $20k (coolant valley n62 (engine out job $$$)/valve stems seals/spark plugs/filters/ (oil changes I do myself ~$80)/ adaptive drive struts at 1k a strut just for parts), air suspension etc (tires 275/40/20 run flats 315/35/20 staggered summer/winter ~2k tires each change) and various other things (still have the car though as its not worth anything to sell (funny enough dont use the it often but have to get another coolant leak checked out (probably heater control valve )

My N63TU X5 was better but still had some pricey maintenance typical bmw turbo v8 problems but ~12mpg (NYC) (car was totaled got t-boned)

If I wanted a suv with similar space and power as the Model Y Performance I'd probably have ended up with an X3M Competition, but that real world mpg for me probably would have been around 12mpg premium fuel again and more expensive maintenance

 

[SO16]

Too bad some of the locations you drive to, didn’t have destination charging.

Or if staying overnight at a hotel choose one with free charging.

 

[Tronguy]

Nerd Time

So, here it is, my estimation, as best I can figure, of the long term costs of a Tesla MYLR vs the Toyota Camry Hybrid XSE. I was planning to buy the Camry Hybrid then at the last minute switched to the Model Y. This is why I have chosen this car as my comparison. The XSE Camry has pretty much every bell and whistle that Toyota offers.

View attachment 955022

INFLATION - I didn't account for inflation in this spreadsheet. Simply didn't know how and I figure they would both raise at the same rate.

ELECTRIC - I already can tell my electric estimate is low. Supercharging is more expensive than I realized.

GAS - I did my gas calculations at $3.50 per gallon and 44 mpg. That is normal here in Wisconsin, but who knows what will happen over the next 10 years.

INSURANCE - I was low on my estimate for Tesla insurance. It looks like it'll be closer to $24,000 of insurance over 10 years.

EXTRA MAINTENANCE - I have NO IDEA how to calculate this. I have driven three Toyotas to almost 400,000 miles with limited maintenance issues until 300,000. So I'm pretending that both of these cars will make it to 300,000 with limited maintenance issues. I know I'm dreaming, but I didn't know how to account for it in this spreadsheet.

CONCLUSIONS - In the unlikely event that my calculations are correct, I would save $2693.57 over 10 years by driving a Tesla MYLR rather than the XSE Hybrid Camry.

Or $22.45 per month over the next 10 years.



Unquestionably this projection is full of holes, but it was as close to an educated guess as I could get to help make my decision. I like the Tesla better and decided it might be a wash. If the Tesla can get close to 300,000 miles like I am convinced the Camry could have, then I'll be happy. If it doesn't... well... it was a fun ride. I decided to take the gamble.

You're pretty much on target. But, there's One More Thing You Might Want To Think About: Solar Energy.

OK. So, the SO, two kids, and I moved into our current abode in 2004. New construction and there was a convenant Not To Do Anything Strange. That expired in 2008.

In 2008, we walked into a home show, were fast-talked by PSE&G and a half-dozen purveyors of solar panel electric systems. The two of us, being engineers, sat down at a table and started doing, "Catch, catch? Where's the catch?". And didn't find one.

Signed on with one batch of installers. $72k for the install. $15k instant rebate from the state; another $15k rebate from the Fed on taxes the following year. There's this thing called SRECs (we're still getting them, but they expire next year) where, for every MW-hr of energy generated by the panels, one gets this electronic certificate that's worth money. Back in 2008, it was $600 a pop; these days, it's $200, and we get roughly twelve of them a year. Rules in NJ say, "No more solar panels on the roof than the amount that will zero out your electric bill." The math was off a bit, though: The system was supposed to generate 10 MW-hr's a year, but it does roughly 12. Whee. Free money.

In any case, our electricity charges, other than a $4.95/month connection charge, is effectively zero. That makes... running around the landscape with our two Teslas pretty darn cheap. Except for trips, of course. But, still.

ICEs don't have this option. Unless one has access to an oil field below one's property. Those of us with BEVs can take advantage of that Big Fusion Power Plant in the Sky.

Changes since the day: It used to be around $8k/kW of panels on the roof, and we got 9 kW of panels up there. These days it's a lot cheaper. I've been asking the occasional solar installer at $RANDOM home shows, and that $72k system would be $24k nowadays.

Now comes the weirdness. Put in the solar panels. Don't pay for electricity. Get out a home improvement loan for the panels. That kind of loan uses the house as collateral and uses Mortgage Rates for the interest one pays (i.e., relatively cheap loans.). One will be cash-flow positive, right off the bat, because the loan amount per month will be less than the cost of electricity you're avoiding.

This became so obvious in NJ, years ago, that the State quit providing those instant rebates and the SREC program, which was meant to provide a 5-year break-even period, has been vastly reduced in its benefits for new users.

So: If you live in a place with a south-facing roof and no trees overhanging that side, really think hard about going solar.

 

[spokey]

That $70 number for gas is highly suspect....

yeah, maybe a bit high. We're paying about 3.30 a gallon around here and based on the OPs 44mpg I get about 63. That said, maybe OPs driving is pretty aggressive, high speed etc but I get 60+ mpg around town. But high speeds kill the Camry Hybrid too. I got about 30mpg cruising through Kansas on their windy 75mph I-70.

 

[spokey]

I will absolutely look into this. If the time commitment is big, I'll just pay more for the convince of the Tesla SC network and forgo the expected savings. But if it's fairly convenient this could save a lot of money. Thanks!

If you decide to try EA, get their pass+ (or whatever it's called). It's 4/5 per month and drops about .10 per kw off the price.
I've been to places where I chose EA because it was faster than the SC down the road. I have EA, Chargepoint, & EVGO (avoid too expensive) but 99% charge at home, the 99% of the rest SC. Having the others in your frunk (with the CCS adapter) is reassuring.

 

[spokey]

Anyone calculated the oil changes and other maintenance cost that you have to pay to use ICE vehicles vs EV?

My wife took our Camry Hybrid for the dealer service today which was mostly an oil change. With a 10% discount it was $111. It does use 0-20 syn and they charged $5 for a new fob battery.