FSD Beta 10.69

[PACEMD]

You know Jobs started the modern CEO product development/presentations game. Steve Jobs was certainly out there and always controversial but he rarely made predictions outside the realm of what he could make happen. Although those predictions were often not yet even with an idea of how to achieve. But Apple's achievements have been a bit easier to define/solve. As for Jobs, when asked if he had market research to know if the public wanted a product under development.......he said......The public doesn't know what it wants until I give it to them........

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I’m really quite surprised how infrequently I am nagged if I just hold the wheel without providing any significant torque input now. It almost seems less common than when I provide steady torque input!

All a bit odd. Similar to what @sleepydoc observed.

Anyway, very hard to tell without hours of driving and comparing different strategies, on the same route.

But I think it is enough that I may modify my strategy and no longer torque the wheel, to see how things go. Then compare to my old strategy.

In some ways it seems easier to dismiss the torque nag if I haven’t been torquing the wheel, too. Which makes not torquing the wheel an attractive approach. And also it seems like I get no credit for torquing the wheel…so why bother, if it does not completely eliminate nagging?

Obviously in all cases hands at 9 and 3 (where else would they go after all; there is nowhere else for them…).

 

[willow_hiller]

Since it's official that Teslas own lawyers have referred to FSD as a "failure" within their own legal documents, should we informally now refer to FSD as Failed Self Driving, for consistency with Tesla's legal team?

Please read the articles you post, instead of just reading headlines.

Tesla's lawyers said "mere failure to realize a long-term, aspirational goal is not fraud."

They've failed to achieve their original timelines, but development continues. They only completely fail if they give up.

 

[Operator64]

Please read the articles you post, instead of just reading headlines.

Tesla's lawyers said "mere failure to realize a long-term, aspirational goal is not fraud."

They've failed to achieve their original timelines, but development continues. They only completely fail if they give up.

But that won’t fit the narrative And it’s hard to be right if you use all the information included.

 

[2101Guy]

Please read the articles you post, instead of just reading headlines.

Tesla's lawyers said "mere failure to realize a long-term, aspirational goal is not fraud."

They've failed to achieve their original timelines, but development continues. They only completely fail if they give up.

Sorry. I’m in agreement with Teslas lawyers (and most realistic Tesla owners).

FSD is nowhere remotely close to an achieving what the CEO has (repeatedly) said it would achieve.

If you TRULY think “1 million robotaxis” will be on the road anytime soon, or Level 5 is “by years end”, or you’ll have the ability to “summon your Tesla from nyc to LA” anytime in the coming years? You are sadly, mistaken. I do hate to break that to you because I know all of those things are not only already several years overdue…but won’t be happening with current teslas…for YEARS.

The time to cease making excuses for Elon has arrived. That class action lawsuit won’t get dismissed. Mark my words. Far too much evidence

 

[PACEMD]

If you TRULY think “1 million robotaxis” will be on the road anytime soon, or Level 5 is “by years end”, or you’ll have the ability to “summon your Tesla from nyc to LA” anytime in the coming years? You are sadly, mistaken. I do hate to break that to you because I know all of those things are not only already several years overdue…but won’t be happening with current teslas…for YEARS.

Have you ever heard of anyone with those expectations? Anyone. Ever. Quote the obvious if you like........class action lawsuit indeed........

 

[dcesq06]

Right, but it does certainly generate publicity and entertainment. A more staid CEO would not draw in the same crowds. And when that traditional CEO made a statement everyone would damn well expect to hold them to that statement. Musk wiggles free from all those traditional restraints........

Don't think it is so much about Elon wiggling free, but more so a case of him not being really challenged yet

 

[sp8962]

I see a lot of posts regarding the need to update 3rd party mapping databases to improve FSD. In this case Open Street [sic] and TomTom. ...

[Disclaimer I obviously have no idea about FSD beta being based in Europe]

Outside of some evidence that OpenStreetMap data has been used for parking lot routing for summons, I think it is fairly safe to say that Tesla currently doesn't use OSM for navigation purposes. It seems to be fairly likely that Tomtom is what is currently being used. I suspect that the confusion stems from the routing technology used which was originally developed for use with OSM.

In any case, in a slightly weird twist of fate, Tomtom is transitioning to using OSM data at least in some places (it is likely that that is a long way off in the US).

 

[JulienW]

[Disclaimer I obviously have no idea about FSD beta being based in Europe]

Outside of some evidence that OpenStreetMap data has been used for parking lot routing for summons, I think it is fairly safe to say that Tesla currently doesn't use OSM for navigation purposes. It seems to be fairly likely that Tomtom is what is currently being used. I suspect that the confusion stems from the routing technology used which was originally developed for use with OSM.

In any case, in a slightly weird twist of fate, Tomtom is transitioning to using OSM data at least in some places (it is likely that that is a long way off in the US).

A little OT (but not as bad as some of the previous posts) but we have no way of knowing. My conjecture is Tesla uses Open Street Maps more for things like lane assignments, locations, red lights, intersection info, etc. And probably uses TomTom more for Navigation. Still likely an aggregation of both and likely other sources.

My anecdotal evidence: Was having a problem with Beta using wrong lanes in 2 locations near my home. They were also wrong on Open Street Maps the same way Beta was driving. I went in and edited them. On the next Navigation Data update Beta started driving in them correctly.

 

[Phlier]

Context is everything.

"Failure to achieve an aspirational goal does not constitute fraud" -Tesla's Lawyers

"TESLA'S LAWYERS CALL FSD A FAILURE!!1111!!!!!!" -every Tesla hater and media outlet

Kid makes a punctuation mistake:

"Let's eat Grandma." -poor kid that forgot a comma
"GRANNYS WORLD WIDE IN FEAR OF BEING EATEN"

Context is everything.

 

[kabin]

That 10.69.3.2 roll-out to those on the 2022.40 path appears to be taking extra time. Gotta wonder how much of extra time is related to NN training challenges or the team being more discriminant with testing before release. And given that will TSLA be able to do the traditional xmas and/or V11 release before year's end?

 

[Operator64]

That 10.69.3.2 roll-out to those on the 2022.40 path appears to be taking extra time. Gotta wonder how much of extra time is related to NN training challenges or the team being more discriminant with testing before release. And given that will TSLA be able to do the traditional xmas and/or V11 release before year's end?

Don’t believe the Holiday/Christmas update is tied to FSD so that should still show on the 24th-26th of December

 

[sp8962]

A little OT (but not as bad as some of the previous posts) but we have no way of knowing. My conjecture is Tesla uses Open Street Maps more for things like lane assignments, locations, red lights, intersection info, etc. And probably uses TomTom more for Navigation. Still likely an aggregation of both and likely other sources.

Even more OT, pet peeve: it is OpenStreetMap singular, camel case and no spaces (and yes it is a trademark of the OSMF).

My anecdotal evidence: Was having a problem with Beta using wrong lanes in 2 locations near my home. They were also wrong on Open Street Maps the same way Beta was driving. I went in and edited them. On the next Navigation Data update Beta started driving in them correctly.

Lets say I have a really hard time believing that, not that it started working for you but that there it was caused by your edits. Tesla would have to provide attribution in some form even if OSM was "just" used for navigation and there is just nothing in the car. Given that the maps images are missing the OSM equivalents of trap streets we can definitely rule out that they are created from OSM data too.

Obviously Tesla could be using different data sources for different regions, but then things are exactly the wrong way around, they should be using OSM here, and Tomtom in the US (explaining that would definitely be going off on a tangent).

 

[PACEMD]

"Let's eat Grandma." -poor kid that forgot a comma
"GRANNYS WORLD WIDE IN FEAR OF BEING EATEN"

A really poor kid may just be too hungry to give a sh*t about punctuation before supper..........

 

[nvx1977]

A really poor kid may just be too hungry to give a sh*t about punctuation before supper..........

 

[2101Guy]

Have you ever heard of anyone with those expectations? Anyone. Ever.

So unless I'm misunderstanding what you are saying...I interpret your statement to imply that customers should not believe commitments made (repeatedly and confidently, with very specific timelines of deliverables) by the (very hands on, very brilliant) CEO of a company.

Is that correct?

 

[scottf200]

It seems to be fairly likely that Tomtom is what is currently being used. I suspect that the confusion stems from the routing technology used which was originally developed for use with OSM.

In any case, in a slightly weird twist of fate, Tomtom is transitioning to using OSM data at least in some places (it is likely that that is a long way off in the US).

Using TomTom planner has shown to match some quirky drive routes that people have seen and questioned. Putting the same from/to in to TomTom has shown the same quirks.

https:// mydrive. tomtom. com/en_gb

TomTom MyDrive

Always know the fastest route and easily synchronize your favourite places with TomTom MyDrive Route planner

mydrive.tomtom.com

 

[am_dmd]

Nothing is wrong in being aspirational and trying to achieve autonomy etc. but knowingly making false claims over the years and stealing money is fraud

 

[PACEMD]

So unless I'm misunderstanding what you are saying...I interpret your statement to imply that customers should not believe commitments made (repeatedly and confidently, with very specific timelines of deliverables) by the (very hands on, very brilliant) CEO of a company.

Is that correct?

Yes. Yes, that is correct. Particularly not to take Elon literally. Who would do that? Serious question. We recently also had an infamous political figure for whom 90+ percent of what came out of his mouth had no meaning and/or could be proven false. Expectations are one thing, reality a different.......

 

[Operator64]

Yes. Yes, that is correct. Particularly not to take Elon literally. Who would do that? Serious question. We recently also had an infamous political figure for whom 90+ percent of what came out of his mouth had no meaning and/or could be proven false. Expectations are one thing, reality a different.......

I thought that was all political figures