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FSD Beta 11.4.2 Ignores White Shoulder Boundary!
My 21 MSLR downloaded 2023.7.10 FSDb v11.4.2 last night and I was excited to drive it today and see the improvements. Sadly, it is a HUGE step backwards.
I left the house this morning and took a 66 mile drive into town, drycleaners, coffee stop, friend's house then back home. The last 16 miles I was so frustrated and concerned about the way the car was driving that I turned off everything except TACC. In the first 50 miles I had more than 30 disengagements (I stopped counting at 30).
The first thing I noticed was the car was no longer biasing to the right on a two-lane, unmarked country road. The car was now biasing to the center, even on blind hills, then on two roads it biased left of center and on one road was fully traveling on the left side of the roadway!
Continuing on noticed speeds were slowing considerably for no reason that I could notice, with the exception of the occasion shadow of a tree. Then as I came to an odd stop sign situation where there is a stop sign prior to an overpass, then another after passing under the overpass, the car just simply stopped in the middle of the road.
My car and I then entered a 70mph highway, accelerated to 75mph and off we go to town. And we changed lanes to follow the route, then we changed lanes again, then again. And when we were in the left lane and a left turn lane came up, the car smoothly merged into that left turn lane, forcing me to disengage and swerve back onto the highway. I let it stay in the turn lane at one point when there was no traffic to see how it would manage getting back to the highway. The answer; SLAM on the brakes to stop at the end of the turn lane with a confusing back and forth on the yoke since it couldn't figure out how to maneuver the single lane back to the right.
As we get into town I had gone through 6 lane changes to "follow the route" in the past 6-7 miles. Simply changing lanes almost every mile from left lane to right. Drivers often wondering what the hell I was doing. The occasional random "blinker" turning on for no reason.
After dropping my drycleaning there was a quick coffee stop and an attempt to now leave town going northbound to see if maybe my car just hates to go south. NOPE, same issues.
During my drive back through town the car opted for a left turn lane while going straight, confusing a few drivers and it fully caught me off guard on that one. Then, once again, changing lanes to follow some bizarre ritual of left lane/right lane almost every mile.
The coup de grâce was heading westbound on a two-lane highway, once again 75mph in a 70mph zone, with my right turn coming up in 1.2 miles the car continued in the left lane at a pace to pass the car going slower in the right lane. As I got to 0.3 miles from my right turn, and just the right amount of room to my right to change lanes, the blinker activates and the lane change occurs, now 0.2 miles from my turn. This is working out great, I'm almost smiling. Then BAM, the car brakes hard and slows 10, 15 then 20 mph below the speed limit to creep up to the turn like a cat trying to creep up on a bird.
I roll down my window and apologize to the driver I just caused to swerve around me and decided that was enough. I turned it all off. I can handle quirks but I can't deal with ridiculous, unforeseeable and dangerous actions.
This new release has been, by far, the worst I've seen so far.
I left the house this morning and took a 66 mile drive into town, drycleaners, coffee stop, friend's house then back home. The last 16 miles I was so frustrated and concerned about the way the car was driving that I turned off everything except TACC. In the first 50 miles I had more than 30 disengagements (I stopped counting at 30).
The first thing I noticed was the car was no longer biasing to the right on a two-lane, unmarked country road. The car was now biasing to the center, even on blind hills, then on two roads it biased left of center and on one road was fully traveling on the left side of the roadway!
Continuing on noticed speeds were slowing considerably for no reason that I could notice, with the exception of the occasion shadow of a tree. Then as I came to an odd stop sign situation where there is a stop sign prior to an overpass, then another after passing under the overpass, the car just simply stopped in the middle of the road.
My car and I then entered a 70mph highway, accelerated to 75mph and off we go to town. And we changed lanes to follow the route, then we changed lanes again, then again. And when we were in the left lane and a left turn lane came up, the car smoothly merged into that left turn lane, forcing me to disengage and swerve back onto the highway. I let it stay in the turn lane at one point when there was no traffic to see how it would manage getting back to the highway. The answer; SLAM on the brakes to stop at the end of the turn lane with a confusing back and forth on the yoke since it couldn't figure out how to maneuver the single lane back to the right.
As we get into town I had gone through 6 lane changes to "follow the route" in the past 6-7 miles. Simply changing lanes almost every mile from left lane to right. Drivers often wondering what the hell I was doing. The occasional random "blinker" turning on for no reason.
After dropping my drycleaning there was a quick coffee stop and an attempt to now leave town going northbound to see if maybe my car just hates to go south. NOPE, same issues.
During my drive back through town the car opted for a left turn lane while going straight, confusing a few drivers and it fully caught me off guard on that one. Then, once again, changing lanes to follow some bizarre ritual of left lane/right lane almost every mile.
The coup de grâce was heading westbound on a two-lane highway, once again 75mph in a 70mph zone, with my right turn coming up in 1.2 miles the car continued in the left lane at a pace to pass the car going slower in the right lane. As I got to 0.3 miles from my right turn, and just the right amount of room to my right to change lanes, the blinker activates and the lane change occurs, now 0.2 miles from my turn. This is working out great, I'm almost smiling. Then BAM, the car brakes hard and slows 10, 15 then 20 mph below the speed limit to creep up to the turn like a cat trying to creep up on a bird.
I roll down my window and apologize to the driver I just caused to swerve around me and decided that was enough. I turned it all off. I can handle quirks but I can't deal with ridiculous, unforeseeable and dangerous actions.
This new release has been, by far, the worst I've seen so far.
Legal in Texas under many circumstances. Here is the actual code. Notice that you can't use the shoulder just to pass a car that is driving normally, but slower, than you, but you can pull into the shoulder at highway speed to allow another vehicle to pass you.
Texas Transportation Code:
Sec. 545.058. DRIVING ON IMPROVED SHOULDER. (a) An operator may drive on an improved shoulder to the right of the main traveled portion of a roadway if that operation is necessary and may be done safely, but only:
(1) to stop, stand, or park;
(2) to accelerate before entering the main traveled lane of traffic;
(3) to decelerate before making a right turn;
(4) to pass another vehicle that is slowing or stopped on the main traveled portion of the highway, disabled, or preparing to make a left turn;
(5) to allow another vehicle traveling faster to pass;
(6) as permitted or required by an official traffic-control device; or
(7) to avoid a collision.
(b) An operator may drive on an improved shoulder to the left of the main traveled portion of a divided or limited-access or controlled-access highway if that operation may be done safely, but only:
(1) to slow or stop when the vehicle is disabled and traffic or other circumstances prohibit the safe movement of the vehicle to the shoulder to the right of the main traveled portion of the roadway;
(2) as permitted or required by an official traffic-control device; or
(3) to avoid a collision.
(c) A limitation in this section on driving on an improved shoulder does not apply to:
(1) an authorized emergency vehicle responding to a call;
(2) a police patrol;
(3) a bicycle; or
(4) a slow-moving vehicle, as defined by Section 547.001.
fasteddie7
Active Member
I’m not thinking in terms of legality so much as there’s always some pieces of broken nonsense on the shoulder just waiting for a tire or paint job to mess up.
It looks like it thinks that's the beginning of a long turn lane, which it will cross double yellow/white to enter as will all drivers.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
Today, the local highway department put up 10 orange traffic barrels, blocking the entire right shoulder shown in this aerial photo. Now I'm curious whether they are either creating a dedicated right turn lane or they are removing part of the wide shoulder.
I've had to turn off FSDb and go to Autosteer (Beta). I can't afford the stress and potential accident/lawsuit from the totally, irrational unexpected maneuvers. Today I was traveling on a local highway at 75mph (speed limit 70mph), in the left of two lanes as I slowly passed a car in the right lane. As i approached a dedicated left turn lane a vehicle in front of me had just entered the left turn lane and slowed considerably to make their left turn. My car decided it also wanted to suddenly be in the left turn lane and with no warning, no indication on the "blue line" and no blinker it maneuvered itself at 75mph into the turn lane. The car saw the truck, which was almost to a stop in front of me in the turn lane, and started to apply the brakes but we were doing 75, the truck 15 and slowing and that math didn't add up. I had a split second to snatch the yoke back to the lane I was in before and avoid a wreck.
A little while later, traveling in Tyler, Texas I had 1.4 miles to go to my next turn near the mall when my car changed from the middle lane to the right-hand lane to "follow the route" and a few hundred yards later it committed to the right hand turn lane. I figured a reroute was in order until the very end of the turn lane when the car suddenly decided it needed to continue straight and as we got to the gore point the car slammed on the brakes, turned on the left blinker and was almost to a complete stop before I could slam on the accelerator and take the yoke to prevent the guy behind me, and the car behind him, getting into a pile-up.
That was it. I was done with FSDb and I turned it off. It seems that every step forward is two steps back. My car now treats two-lane, unmarked roads as a "lane" and won't commit to the right side. My car when seeing a car coming down a two-lane, unmarked road gets confused and simply comes to a stop in the middle of the road. These things it did not do just a few days ago. And the list of egregious, unexpected errors/actions is very long.
I know you have to continuously "monitor" the car, but the car can do things so fast and unexpectedly that it's just a matter of time before someone gets in a wreck and I don't want to be "that guy." Hopefully a much better update will come along in a few years and I can turn it back on, maybe there's a BMW, Cadillac or something else out there that is close in the technology that is a little less flawed. But Tesla is many, many years away from their current technology being viable and safe enough that you don't have to constantly drive like a cat on a hot tin roof.
A little while later, traveling in Tyler, Texas I had 1.4 miles to go to my next turn near the mall when my car changed from the middle lane to the right-hand lane to "follow the route" and a few hundred yards later it committed to the right hand turn lane. I figured a reroute was in order until the very end of the turn lane when the car suddenly decided it needed to continue straight and as we got to the gore point the car slammed on the brakes, turned on the left blinker and was almost to a complete stop before I could slam on the accelerator and take the yoke to prevent the guy behind me, and the car behind him, getting into a pile-up.
That was it. I was done with FSDb and I turned it off. It seems that every step forward is two steps back. My car now treats two-lane, unmarked roads as a "lane" and won't commit to the right side. My car when seeing a car coming down a two-lane, unmarked road gets confused and simply comes to a stop in the middle of the road. These things it did not do just a few days ago. And the list of egregious, unexpected errors/actions is very long.
I know you have to continuously "monitor" the car, but the car can do things so fast and unexpectedly that it's just a matter of time before someone gets in a wreck and I don't want to be "that guy." Hopefully a much better update will come along in a few years and I can turn it back on, maybe there's a BMW, Cadillac or something else out there that is close in the technology that is a little less flawed. But Tesla is many, many years away from their current technology being viable and safe enough that you don't have to constantly drive like a cat on a hot tin roof.
Hello, neighbor! I'm not far from Tyler.
I continue to use FSDb and have gotten a little more comfortable with it, but that's because I'm learning where it always screws up and don't use it when approaching those locations. Unfortunately, that means using it mostly when driving straight ahead - something that the standard Autopilot does nearly as well. I still allow it to make some turns when traffic is light or non-existent. I also don't like how it takes the path based on navigation, which is often not the preferred or most efficient route.
It's been fun to play with, but I wouldn't use it with anyone else in the car (it would scare the crap out of most of my friends, family, and coworkers) and I would be hesitant to recommend it to anyone unless they understood what it does, doesn't, and might do.
I continue to use FSDb and have gotten a little more comfortable with it, but that's because I'm learning where it always screws up and don't use it when approaching those locations. Unfortunately, that means using it mostly when driving straight ahead - something that the standard Autopilot does nearly as well. I still allow it to make some turns when traffic is light or non-existent. I also don't like how it takes the path based on navigation, which is often not the preferred or most efficient route.
It's been fun to play with, but I wouldn't use it with anyone else in the car (it would scare the crap out of most of my friends, family, and coworkers) and I would be hesitant to recommend it to anyone unless they understood what it does, doesn't, and might do.
Tyler is hard enough to drive around without having to worry about my car doing something weird!! But at least I know I am driving like a lot of other drivers down there y'all have to deal with on a daily basis so I fit in! LOL
Latest episode in making up lanes: I tried 11.4.2 going thru an intersection at which I’d been turning left in the past. It’s a strange intersection in which the “left turn lane” is also the straight thru lane, and the right lane is a right turn only lane. There were a few cars in the left/thru lane as I approached the intersection, and instead of waiting in line to go thru the intersection like everyone else, my vehicle got in the right turn only lane and drove thru the intersection. Illegally. It was apparently trying to bypass the waiting vehicles & somehow cut in front of the legally operating ones. I aborted the maneuver.
I was thinking today about the recent 11.4.2 behaviors, and I would characterize it as “arrogant”, which is quite different from “mistaken”. 11.3.3 and 11.3.6 took “shortcuts” thru parking lots and (almost) an alley to get around its mistakes. This feels different.
This latest update is a complete disaster. So many regressions. Drives even more like a senile invalid than ever including STOPPING AT GREEN LIGHTS before making right turns. That’s is so unsafe! You can even see on the visualization the line where it plans to stop. Having serious doubts we’ll ever see a Tesla robotaxi
11.4.2 made two lane-related mistakes yesterday. It pulled into a bike lane on the right to make a right turn at an intersection, which is wrong. There was no dedicated right turn late at that intersection. Later, it made a right turn onto a street that recently had the right lanes turned into bus only lanes at all times. They are marked both by signs and on the pavement. 11.4.2 ignored the signs and pavement markings, and started driving in the bus lane until I intervened and moved over to the correct lane.
I guess that is one of those things they are going to have to do differently based on the state. In MN (for example), one is required to pull into the bike lane:
OK, after looking into this more, I am curious which state does NOT require a car to pull into the bike lane before making a right turn?
At the state level, I cannot find any provisions in the Texas Transportation code relating to making turns where there is a bicycle lane. It's possible that individual cities could have requirements, but they are not statewide.
It's not a bad requirement though. Moving into the bicycle lane before the turn avoids making a 'right hook' in front of a cyclist.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
True - but if there are people waiting on the side walk you can scare them and thus not a good etiquette.
Today, my MX running 11.4.2 nearly ran into another Tesla while it was merging onto a freeway ahead of me. My vehicle left little to no space for the other vehicle to merge, and I intervened. Arrogant behavior while in Chill mode.
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