FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[kabin]

I guess it will be fixed in May 2024 after Tesla collects enough videos of rain from the rain season January 2024-March 2024 to train the NN.

A rain edge case?

 

[rlsd]

A rain edge case?

 

[jebinc]

Too bad TMC software doesn't include a sad "reaction" emoji....

 

[mgs333]

11.4.8.1's rollout seems to be slowing down per Teslafi, not a good sign.

 

[jebinc]

11.4.8.1's rollout seems to be slowing down per Teslafi, not a good sign.

but not at all surprising - given all of the other v11.4 releases, or lack thereof.

 

[Mardak]

I think fastfreddie7 falls into that category - HW4 with early 11.4.8.1 download.

Oh right, I believe @fasteddie7 and @PR0FESSOR are the two HW4 that received FSD Beta back in May much earlier than the larger addition of HW4 to 2023.27.x late September/early October. Perhaps you two are in a special "early early access" HW4 group that get these updates sooner than the rest of HW4 waiting with either "regular early access" 2023.27.x / 11.4.7 or "general release" 2023.38.x / 11.4.4.

 

[rlsd]

11.4.8.1's rollout seems to be slowing down per Teslafi, not a good sign.

Actually it's a good sign. We will have a chance to get a better version since the first impression videos say there are no significant improvements, and fortunately there are no regressions.

 

[kabin]

11.4.8.1's rollout seems to be slowing down per Teslafi, not a good sign.

Maybe the team is evaluating before releasing the hounds?

 

[jebinc]

Actually it's a good sign. We will have a chance to get a better version since the first impression videos say there are no significant improvements, and fortunately there are no regressions.

But there are regressions - One being the wiper action (worse than before) and another being reactions to driveway gates (is far worse with 8.1)...

 

[kabin]

Here's one of those high probability FSD accidents without driver intervention. FSD began applying brakes after about 2 secs but not sufficient to avoid contact. Not sure if it's 11.4.8.1.

Looks like she started get some X community notes heat.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1731357915997753560

 

[jebinc]

Here's one of those guaranteed FSD accidents without driver intervention. FSD couldn't respond in time. Not sure if it's 11.4.8.1.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1731357915997753560

Same would be true for the gate regression I posted yesterday. While the red hands of death was displayed, the car was about to bust thru the gate - which it never attempted before. In the past, you got the red hands of death and the car stopped well in front of the gate.

 

[willow_hiller]

Not sure if it's 11.4.8.1.

Are you serious? The visualizations on the screen are from 10.69 or lower. Road edges haven't been displayed in red for over a year.

Why are you boosting accounts that post year-old videos and pretend they're current faults in FSD?

 

[swedge]

Dry wipe issue remains for the 11.4.8.1 release. Strange they can't fix this after so many bug fix releases.

Did dry wipes start with photon level processing? If so maybe the issue is photon level being less SNR and increased noise being indistinguishable with rain droplets? Otherwise it leaves one to believe they just don't give a #@$.

I agree completely that this needs to be fixed, but we might be able to find some clues as to what is wrong by comparing notes.

What does it mean that some of us are not seeing the severe wiper problems? I am not suggesting there is no problem, just trying to help get it fixed!

In my case (2021 MY, 2023.27.2 11.4.3.7.3) it has dry wiped only a couple of times, and functions fine in rain. I did see occasional dry wipes before FSD, typically when I engaged autopilot, so I figured it was trying to clean a bug splat in front of the front camera.

I do wonder also if, for those with frequent dry wipes, if turning off FSD and using plain old autopilot changes the behavior. That is to say, is the problem in the FSD code or in the non-FSD code?

One possibility is that there is some issue in the hardware which aggravates some change in the software. For example, when my Y was less than 6 months old, it started showing false indications of the front trunk being open. After several failed attempts, service finally replaced the front body controller and the problem went away. Several other TMCers had the same problem. During that process it became obvious that Tesla did not understand the problem, and was continuing to produce cars with a defect which was costing serious service $$$. Intermittent problems can be hard to diagnose down to root cause, and it that case it took about a year for them to figure it out.

Another possibility is that some cameras don't play well with the current FSD. Or, as some have reported, condensation on the inside of the glass in front of the camera.

 

[powertoold]

I dry wipe on a daily basis

 

[WilliamG]

I agree completely that this needs to be fixed, but we might be able to find some clues as to what is wrong by comparing notes.

What does it mean that some of us are not seeing the severe wiper problems? I am not suggesting there is no problem, just trying to help get it fixed!

In my case (2021 MY, 2023.27.2 11.4.3.7.3) it has dry wiped only a couple of times, and functions fine in rain. I did see occasional dry wipes before FSD, typically when I engaged autopilot, so I figured it was trying to clean a bug splat in front of the front camera.

I do wonder also if, for those with frequent dry wipes, if turning off FSD and using plain old autopilot changes the behavior. That is to say, is the problem in the FSD code or in the non-FSD code?

One possibility is that there is some issue in the hardware which aggravates some change in the software. For example, when my Y was less than 6 months old, it started showing false indications of the front trunk being open. After several failed attempts, service finally replaced the front body controller and the problem went away. Several other TMCers had the same problem. During that process it became obvious that Tesla did not understand the problem, and was continuing to produce cars with a defect which was costing serious service $$$. Intermittent problems can be hard to diagnose down to root cause, and it that case it took about a year for them to figure it out.

Another possibility is that some cameras don't play well with the current FSD. Or, as some have reported, condensation on the inside of the glass in front of the camera.

Based on my experience and many others, - it's nothing to do with a hardware issue, and everything to do with software. I don't remember which version it was where wipers became horrific for me, - but a couple of releases back. Until then, I'd had no real issues with the auto wipers. I knew, before I even updated my software, that people with the same car as me had complained about the wiper regression with that specific software. I still hit install on that update, and since that exact day, my wipers have been near unusable, either dry wiping or not wiping in the rain. In Seattle, it's total pita this time of year. Now, this software update may play differently with different hardware revisions installed on these cars, but it's still a root cause software issue, - no doubt in my mind.

 

[Individoo]

Hello Everyone, I installed the latest FSDb 11.4.8.1 yesterday and drove it to work today morning 45km, mostly on the highway. My first impressions are that the drive was more or less the same. One thing that changed is that the car started to pay attention to some speed limit changes on the highway that were consistently ignored in the past. This morning it improved in two locations, once it adjusted the speed down from 80km/h to 70km/h and in another spot it increased it from 80 to 90, as per posted speed limits. Feels like a step in the right direction. I'm curious if anyone else noticed similar thing?
I also love the single pull to activate the FSD. Recently I had a lot of failed initializations, maybe I'm too quick pulling the lever twice, so a single pull to engage is great!

 

[Mardak]

11.4.8.1's rollout seems to be slowing down per Teslafi, not a good sign.

Looks like Tesla increased both rollouts of 2023.27.12 / 11.4.8.1 and NA-2023.44-14828. TeslaFi is now showing this latest FSD Beta available to roughly 18% of 2023.27.x more than double earlier 8% rollout. TeslaFi.com Firmware Tracker

Teslascope shows it's only going to those already on 2023.27.x for now.

 

[EVNow]

condensation on the inside of the glass in front of the camera.

That is an interesting thought ....

 

[dtdtdt]

Based on my experience and many others, - it's nothing to do with a hardware issue, and everything to do with software. I don't remember which version it was where wipers became horrific for me

It could be both hardware and software. According to an article on notateslaapp from May, Tesla switched from using just a front camera to detect rain to using all cameras. Thus, now if there is something fishy with any camera (e.g. condensation, dirt), the new software might think it’s raining. So, people with the really bad extra wipes issue might want to use the new service feature to show cameras and study each image for some distortion that the car might think is raindrops.

Tesla Upgrades Autowipers to v4, Musk Apologizes for Poor Performance

Tesla's Autowipers system in the new v4 update, the shelving of Musk's 'Deep Rain' concept, and the utilization of Tesla's 8 cameras for enhanced rain detection

www.notateslaapp.com

 

[bhakan]

For me the single pull is the most important update. Even if everything else remains the same - 8.1 would be worth a great deal for me.

Am I missing something? I have been using single press in the scroll wheel for FSD and I set it up that way. Is my brain foggy? I press that once and FSD is gone. So what is this new single pull in this update? I am on a travel out of the country for nearly a month and can't tear it.