FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[Dewg]

Ah, so maybe everywhere has avoiding an obstruction?

Regardless, crossing double yellow is a requirement to drive.

I think someone mentioned the car already does it - so there's nothing to worry about.

 

[JulienW]

RTs are required to follow all traffic laws in every jurisdiction in the US they are allowed to operate.

So obviously robotaxis will not cross double yellows- ever- because they'd be breaking the law and removed from the road.

So in my situation what does a L4 RT do? It already made the turn so it will do what??????????. Stop in the street (illegal) or Double Park (illegal) or what? There is NO OPTION that is legal so what does it do?

 

[uscbucsfan]

So in my situation what does a L4 RT do? It already made the turn so it will do what??????????. Stop in the street (illegal) or Double Park (illegal) or what? There is NO OPTION that is legal so what does it do?

Pretty sure that was sarcasm.

 

[Knightshade]

FWIW my realistic expectation is they'd cross a double yellow when there's an actual legal reason to- like construction re-routing the lanes or something.

They would NOT do it illegally because the turn lane to the mall gets busy and and "that's just how you drive around here"

Same way they won't illegally speed even if "everyone drives fast" or, yes, do rolling stops because that's how everyone does it.

 

[Tronguy]

Ah, so maybe everywhere has avoiding an obstruction?

Regardless, crossing double yellow is a requirement to drive.

Late to the party. However: There are two-lane roads around here with double-yellow lines through which trash trucks do their stop-and-go business. When they're on the rightish side of the road, there is absolutely no way to get around them without crossing the double-yellow. Anybody playing that game (i.e., stopping behind said truck and waiting until they turn right/left/the road widens up) will be there, following them, for up to 15 minutes or a half hour.

And while one is doing that, all the human drivers will be trying to pass not just the trash truck, but you, who, depending upon your car's nearness to the center line, will be blithely blocking the view forward, making it all more dangerous for all involved.

Now, at one time, FSD-b wouldn't actually go around trash trucks doing their thing like that. It was in one of the late 10.x or early 11.x releases, middle of year before last, where FSD-b started crossing the double yellow to go around stopped trucks and what-all of various flavors. So, this isn't new behavior on 11, or 12 for that matter.

I think there was a time or three, early on, where it would try and do that with school buses, which is a no-no in all 50 states. But that's why it was a beta.

 

[uscbucsfan]

I think there was a time or three, early on, where it would try and do that with school buses, which is a no-no in all 50 states. But that's why it was a beta.

11.4.9, in my car, still tries to pass buses with the stop sign out. I obviously take over knowing it will. Hopefully V12 can know better. I assume they have to feed it data showing it.

 

[FOOLSLFDRVNG]

1 download for v12 today, there’s a glitch of hope.

11.49 phantom lane changed in the freeway today so it can drive in the slow lane behind trucks 8 miles from the exit.

I don’t even bother explaining a disengagement anymore, just say “need a teleporter here.”

 

[mgs333]

1 download for v12 today, there’s a glitch of hope.

11.49 phantom lane changed in the freeway today so it can drive in the slow lane behind trucks 8 miles from the exit.

I don’t even bother explaining a disengagement anymore, just say “need a teleporter here.”

That's the old dead-in-the-water version. There are still 2 cars on Teslafi in pending installation status. These last few cars just haven't gotten around to installing it.

 

[JulienW]

1 download for v12 today, there’s a glitch of hope....

HOPE????? Someone was on vacation or business for a week or 2 and got back home to install v12 that has been waiting. How is that hope?

 

[Pdubs]

HOPE????? Someone was on vacation or business for a week or 2 and got back home to install v12 that has been waiting. How is that hope?

He's a silver lining kind of guy! n here you are bursting his bubble...

 

[JulienW]

He's a silver lining kind of guy! n here you are bursting his bubble...

REAL HOPE is getting in my 11.4.9 this morning and making it to work with only 2 disengagements and 3 interventions.

UNREALISTIC HOPE is thinking 12.3 will be released today and pushed to most people over the weekend.

 

[mgs333]

11.4.9 continues to start to change lanes directly into other cars on the freeway.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

11.4.9 continues to start to change lanes directly into other cars on the freeway.

I’ve never seen that, unless the other person is changing lanes at the same time. See above. Do you have TeslaCam clip?

 

[FOOLSLFDRVNG]

11.4.9 continues to start to change lanes directly into other cars on the freeway.

I’ve had many incidents. It comes very close to the bumper and it depends how much you can tolerate.

 

[bhakan]

11.4.9 continues to start to change lanes directly into other cars on the freeway.

I have noticed that behavior too occurring frequently now when a 18 wheeler is on the next lane on the highway. Last week I was driving to Richmond, VA from DC and my car would want to move from the left lane to the passing lane and when a truck is still on that lane. The visualization clearly shows it as a long blue truck but my car will turn on the turn signals and it was bumper to bumper on the I 95 and the car will try to slow down as it it was going to the next lane. It scared me a few times as it was a new behavior. But it happened only with those long trucks.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

For posterity, 11.4.9 did not handle flashing reds on multi-lane roads well. Had mentioned this in the past to some skepticism, but here is documentation. (Not a big deal; I would expect it to just sit there in perpetuity, which is what it does.)

Also it's terrible at stopping nice and smoothly when traffic in front applies fairly heavy braking but totally not an emergency stop. It's like it's never heard about slowing down gradually. No news here. Awful performance, same old garbage. Will v12 be up to the challenge?

The MASSIVE slamming is clearly evident on many fronts here. Amazingly poor. Sometimes traffic slows down. Your job is to slow down less suddenly. What is so hard about that?

End thread (for me).

 

[sleepydoc]

For posterity, 11.4.9 did not handle flashing reds on multi-lane roads well. Had mentioned this in the past to some skepticism, but here is documentation. (Not a big deal; I would expect it to just sit there in perpetuity, which is what it does.)

Also it's terrible at stopping nice and smoothly when traffic in front applies fairly heavy braking but totally not an emergency stop. It's like it's never heard about slowing down gradually. No news here. Awful performance, same old garbage. Will v12 be up to the challenge?

The MASSIVE slamming is clearly evident on many fronts here. Amazingly poor. Sometimes traffic slows down. Your job is to slow down less suddenly. What is so hard about that?

End thread (for me).

For whatever reason the later versions of FSD seem to have issues judging distances leading to jerky or harsh stops. Hoping V12 helps this.

 

[JulienW]

For whatever reason the later versions of FSD seem to have issues judging distances leading to jerky or harsh stops. Hoping V12 helps this.

Let me correct you: ........leading to jerky EVERY damn thing. PRAYING V12 helps with all the jerks.

I want to be the ONLY jerk in my Tesla.

 

[Dave EV]

Also it's terrible at stopping nice and smoothly when traffic in front applies fairly heavy braking but totally not an emergency stop. It's like it's never heard about slowing down gradually. No news here. Awful performance, same old garbage. Will v12 be up to the challenge?

The MASSIVE slamming is clearly evident on many fronts here. Amazingly poor. Sometimes traffic slows down. Your job is to slow down less suddenly. What is so hard about that?

This is a pet peeve of mine and because it's so jerky, I disengage FSDB a lot more often that I would really like it to when in traffic.

 

[hybridbear]

This is a pet peeve of mine and because it's so jerky, I disengage FSDB a lot more often that I would really like it to when in traffic.

Me too. I’ve found that moving from our 2016 S90D that was upgraded to the HW3 computer & RCCB cameras to our new HW4 Model Y Long Range is a big improvement. FSD Beta is much less jerky in the Y. Idk if it’s the better cameras of HW4 or the higher position of the SUV or evidence that something was wrong with our S, but FSD Beta is much more useable in the Y on 11.4.9.