FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[aronth5]

Presumably these are normal flashing red intersections (either all ways or two ways?). My case is a normally traffic-light-controlled intersection, multi lanes, which is flashing red. (Or off. Presumably similar behavior if it detects it.)

Correct. Pretty simple intersections are ok. Don't recall any multi-lane with flashing reds. Lucky you!

 

[kabin]

Here's an honest thoughtful review of V11.4.4. The camera view is a bit odd but it works although lacking a close view of the UI.

 

[X Fan]

Here's an honest thoughtful review of V11.4.4. The camera view is a bit odd but it works although lacking a close view of the UI.

I agree that Tesla probably doesn’t hear the recordings but it makes me feel better by venting.

Lol-I leave plenty of “choice” words

 

[Mardak]

Looks like holiday update testing might be starting with 2023.44.25 one TeslaFi vehicle pending, so unclear if it maintains 11.4.4 like 2023.44.1. I suppose there could be time for 11.4.8.1 to get enough testing to make it to main release as a later 2023.44.25.5?

 

[JulienW]

Looks like holiday update testing might be starting with 2023.44.25 one TeslaFi vehicle pending, so unclear if it maintains 11.4.4 like 2023.44.1. I suppose there could be time for 11.4.8.1 to get enough testing to make it to main release as a later 2023.44.25.5?

Knowing Tesla it will probably be the worst of both to keep everyone unhappy. 23.44.25/11.4.4 and then a 23.45.25/11.4.8.1 for Early Access.

This way people who get 23.44.25/11.4.4 will still get the confusing version to be mad about. And Early Access will be stuck on the 23.45.25 branch until spring.

Long live the Dry Wipes.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

Knowing Tesla it will probably be the worst of both to keep everyone unhappy. 23.44.25/11.4.4 and then a 23.45.25/11.4.8.1 for Early Access.

This way people who get 23.44.25/11.4.4 will still get the confusing version to be mad about. And Early Access will be stuck on the 23.45.25 branch until spring.

Long live the Dry Wipes.

As long as I have something to be mad about, it’s okay.

 

[Matias]

Right - but there's a clear difference in the audible signals so it's pretty obvious which mode you're in. Every time I activate FSD I listen for the double tone, check to see that the steering wheel is blue and make sure the car is actually driving itself. I just don't see how it's an issue.

It's great that you never make mistakes.

 

[kabin]

I had a 30min initial morning drive on v11.4.8.1 and with no traffic. The single stalk is an improvement but everything else feels much the same with possibly a couple of new behaviors.

I'm bummed the new video module's dramatic compute improvement everywhere wasn't noticeable anywhere. A four way stop with no traffic still requires about 5 secs of dilly dally, creep, crawl, herky jerkies. No cross traffic to evaluate improvement so maybe still hope there?

One bizarre instance of an attempted rt lane change or turn at a traffic light after the light changed from red to green. I never experienced that. Another strange instance on a Y section of 65mph freeway with UI nav showing the correct path and yet FSD slowed to 45mph before taking the wrong direction. Something isn't right with path planning.

Odd turn signals usage on a straight section of road. Turn signals toggled from LT to RT to LT... Seems worse than the previous occasional errant turn signal.

Dry wipes remain.

FSD still drives like a senseless robot with jumpy thottle, step-like brake application as well as excess steering input and all is exacerbated in turns. No skilled human drives like this. And I still don't understand the need for residential street 20mph 90deg turns when the speed limit is 25mph. Nor a need to drive so close to parked cars on residential streets when I'm the only driving on the road.

 

[jebinc]

I had a 30min initial morning drive on v11.4.8.1 and with no traffic. The single stalk is an improvement but everything else feels much the same with possibly a couple of new behaviors.

I'm bummed the new video module's dramatic compute improvement everywhere wasn't noticeable anywhere. A four way stop with no traffic still requires about 5 secs of dilly dally, creep, crawl, herky jerkies. No cross traffic to evaluate improvement so maybe still hope there?

One bizarre instance of an attempted rt lane change or turn at a traffic light after the light changed from red to green. I never experienced that. Another strange instance on a Y section of 65mph freeway with UI nav showing the correct path and yet FSD slowed to 45mph before taking the wrong direction. Something isn't right with path planning.

Odd turn signals usage on a straight section of road. Turn signals toggled from LT to RT to LT... Seems worse than the previous occasional errant turn signal.

Dry wipes remain.

FSD still drives like a senseless robot with jumpy thottle, step-like brake application as well as excess steering input and all is exacerbated in turns. No skilled human drives like this. And I still don't understand the need for residential street 20mph 90deg turns when the speed limit is 25mph. Nor a need to drive so close to parked cars on residential streets when I'm the only driving on the road.

Yeah, the slow roll/dily dallying at intersections was annoying af. I tested it just once and was done for this version.

 

[zoomer0056]

Right - but there's a clear difference in the audible signals so it's pretty obvious which mode you're in. Every time I activate FSD I listen for the double tone, check to see that the steering wheel is blue and make sure the car is actually driving itself. I just don't see how it's an issue.

Yup, that's the way to do it.

 

[sleepydoc]

It's great that you never make mistakes.

Your snark aside, if you're not careful you can make a mistake with any system. Changing from a double tap to a single tap won't change that and blaming the mistake on the fact that there are two modes is misguided.

 

[sleepydoc]

Still doesn’t handle flashing reds. Hopefully this new version will. Really have to push through it with the accelerator. If you lightly push it will go, but then stop in the middle of the intersection (and even AFTER the intersection!). Had some time to actually experiment since no traffic was behind. No construction.

Seems like not that hard a problem, but I guess it is outside the design space. Maybe end to end will fix it.

Miramar Rd & Empire St · Transport interchange

San Diego, CA

maps.app.goo.gl

I've noticed with the later versions (i.e. the last 2) that it will often start a turn and then stop in the middle of the intersection if the light turns yellow. This is a new behavior along with the other regressions we got with 11.4.x

As I said, it worked fine for the one time I came across flashing reds. So they aren't totally unsupported.

I've had it work sporadically, too, but it seems to be a minority of the cases. At best it's horribly inconsistent.

 

[zoomer0056]

It's great that you never make mistakes.

There are many points to read into this statement. The most basic point is that people will be distracted, inattentive, not mindfull, incapable, misinformed ... or untrained because they either or both did not take a class or even read the manual. Until someone has proven skill at operating the higher functions they should get just basic simple interface.

And having achieved the skill but making a mistake, should be denied higher functions until they go back to traffic school. But I have no idea at all if this is a bad idea, how training would happen or how this would be enforced. I've had only reading manual training. I don't think there is any training available like driver's education. So ... when you see an EV out there, give 'em lots of room.

 

[sleepydoc]

Well, I just got an update notice for 2023.17.12. We'll see if they managed to make the dry wipes worse. What's puzzling and frustrating to me is how they seem to focus on some minor improvements and ignore more significant issues.

The wipers were not great but at least average before, so why did they bother changing the code? Why haven't they just reverted to the old code?
"Reduced vehicle velocity error by 3%" ummm.. ok. Is anyone going to notice that?

 

[dansev]

Well, I just got an update notice for 2023.17.12. We'll see if they managed to make the dry wipes worse. What's puzzling and frustrating to me is how they seem to focus on some minor improvements and ignore more significant issues.

The wipers were not great but at least average before, so why did they bother changing the code? Why haven't they just reverted to the old code?
"Reduced vehicle velocity error by 3%" ummm.. ok. Is anyone going to notice that?

100% agree.

I just installed 2023.17.12 moments ago. Haven't yet seen wiper progress, if any, as I'm not in the car. But in another thread, someone said the moment they activated FSDb after the update, they got a dry wipe. And I had to wipe away tears!

 

[EVNow]

Right - but there's a clear difference in the audible signals so it's pretty obvious which mode you're in. Every time I activate FSD I listen for the double tone, check to see that the steering wheel is blue and make sure the car is actually driving itself. I just don't see how it's an issue.

But from a safety perspective - you don't want a tone to be the distinguishing character between TACC and FSD.

Again yesterday - the car was showing the wheel - meaning it is ready for FSD. When I double tapped only TACC got engaged and the wheel disappeared.

The number of people wanting to engage TACC in a 25 mph neighborhood street must be approaching zero - so, definitely it should not engage TACC and give an obvious indication (not some tiny "tone") that FSD didn't engage.

 

[sleepydoc]

But from a safety perspective - you don't want a tone to be the distinguishing character between TACC and FSD.

Again yesterday - the car was showing the wheel - meaning it is ready for FSD. When I double tapped only TACC got engaged and the wheel disappeared.

The number of people wanting to engage TACC in a 25 mph neighborhood street must be approaching zero - so, definitely it should not engage TACC and give an obvious indication (not some tiny "tone") that FSD didn't engage.

Completely disagree - the tone adds an additional level of safety. You have both video and audio cues indicating what's going on, exactly as in other areas.

I routinely have occasions where I try to engage and it won't (like you said, the wheel disappears because the system can't engage at that particular spot for some reason.) When that happens the car gives the rapid 'beep - beep - beep' to indicate an error. As I recall, it doesn't enter TACC, either but I'll have to check. Either way, it alerts you.

Also, I routinely use TACC in lower speed areas to prevent myself from speeding. There's a parkway I take to work that has a 25 MPH speed limit. Without TACC I'll easily hit 35-40 before I realize it. (it doesn't help that others drive that fast) Either way, having TACC disabled and lower speeds and enabled at higher speeds would be a far worse system.

 

[diplomat33]

I love the single tap feature to active FSD. It makes activating FSD a lot easier.

 

[rayrevolver]

Installed 2023.27.12 this morning.

I noticed that when I scroll the commanded speed up or down, there is a small tick mark showing something pointed diagonally up or down, respectively.

I think that is new. It reminds of modern aircraft with a velocity trend on the PFD but it's not quite the same. I will have a look and see if the symbol shows up when I engage FSD and the car has to speed up or slow down.

With a single pull FSD does that mean I lose TACC altogether or can I breakout of FSD with steering and be in TACC? I didn't mess with single pull on the way to work, but will on the way home. I use both and want to use both FSD and TACC.

 

[MP3Mike]

With a single pull FSD does that mean I lose TACC altogether

Yes.

or can I breakout of FSD with steering and be in TACC?

No.

I use both and want to use both FSD and TACC.

Then you don't want to use the single pull option.