Trading Standards & Park Assist

[GRiLLA]

I thought the S and X had lost USS as well. I'm sure I have seen photos

Yup. there was defiantly an X seen with the new cameras and no USS, not delivered yet.

I bet that tonight Elon will push a magic red button that kicks off deployment of the new Park Assist to the fleet, bring full 360 visualisation from the AI model. It'll actually be an Optimus that you store in the boot and it gets out and waves you into tight parking spaces.

 

[JIBYC]

I think it's not so much the case that they are adding ultrasonics back with HW4, rather than it's the S/X that is getting HW4 first - and those never had ultrasonics taken away.

Even Tesla doesn't have the front to remove $113 of parts from $120k+ cars.

My theory is that the extra camera ports for for Semi / Cybertruck. I cannot see 3/Y getting bumper cameras but I'm on the internet so I'm probably wrong.

 

[Ratch]

Tesla’s response to me notifying them of my Trading Stabdards report:

Thank you for your email, we are sorry to hear you are unhappy with your vehicle due to the removal of the ultra-sonic sensors.

We can confirm the vehicle was as advertised as having Tesla Vision included as part of your vehicle’s configuration at point of order.

The decision to remove the Ultra-Sonic Sensors, which previously supported the park assist feature, was made in the interest of developing the features of our vehicles. The reduction in different sensory inputs simplifies the vehicle’s understanding of its environment, allowing maximum focus towards interpretation of visionary inputs, which enables greater capacity for other and additional features. This change does mean a temporary impact on the park assist features, but we are working promptly to develop software to re-enable this feature which you can expect to be available soon. Park Assist along with any other convenience features are offered as drivers aids and guidance tools but are not intended to replace the drivers visual, physical and safety checks as outlined in the relevant sections of the Owner’s Manual. As such, your vehicle remains safe to use while these features are rolled out.

Concerning hardware, you can be assured your vehicle has everything necessary for the features of the included autopilot option configured with your purchase. We reassure you we are confident in supporting the continued development of these features with the current Tesla Vision hardware.

Additionally, the Motor Vehicle Order Agreement which you agree to adhere to at the time of purchase it states, ‘As we are continuously improving our vehicles, we may make changes, including changes to the manufacturing technologies or materials applied to, or used for, any Vehicle components, to your Vehicle to the extent those do not, at our reasonable discretion, materially affect your order”. Therefore, any software changes or improvements made to your vehicle, are done so in line with the above agreed terms and any surrounding agreements that Tesla have with you in relation to your vehicle. Like any products, changes can be made at any time.

The vehicle was sold and has been delivered with Tesla Vision. Some of these features are currentlytemporarily limited or inactive however they will return and some features of Tesla Vision remain available therefore there is no contractual discrepancy as you have stated. When released, Tesla vision will use the vehicles cameras to assist with parking. The cameras are still available to you currently therefore we deny the product has been mis sold to you.

Our Customer Resolutions team work alongside our senior management teams, therefore, any response received from our team is provided as a response from the business respectively. As such, we would not be able to provide any further routes for escalation within Tesla. We understand this is not the response you were seeking from us; however, we hope you understand that we must treat all our customers and owners with the same level of integrity and honesty regarding product changes.

Kind regards

 

[Fursty Ferret]

‘As we are continuously improving our vehicles, we may make changes, including changes to the manufacturing technologies or materials applied to, or used for, any Vehicle components, to your Vehicle to the extent those do not, at our reasonable discretion, materially affect your order”.

Well, if you were ever looking for a perfect example to demonstrate the law behind Unfair Contract Terms, there you go.

 

[Ratch]

Well, if you were ever looking for a perfect example to demonstrate the law behind Unfair Contract Terms, there you go.

It definitely affected the order and has not improved the product. Just crazy how they write this stuff and send it out to people like we’re all utter idiots.

 

[WllXM]

It definitely affected the order and has not improved the product. Just crazy how they write this stuff and send it out to people like we’re all utter idiots.

Well, were you expecting them to apologise on the first instance and say "You're right, we hadn't realised how badly we screwed up. Here's your money back and please keep the car to make up for the inconvenience"?

Now then...

 

[SalisburySam]

@Ratch congratulations on getting an actual rise out of Tesla, albeit from a lawyer having just had a wet dream. Lots of interesting phrasing in the response:

• “…sorry you are unhappy…” Er, sure.
• entire lengthy second paragraph - a marvel of non-speak raising the standard of such rubbish to new heights.
• ”…can be assured your vehicle has everything…” Good to know. It is a shame you can’t use paid-for portions of it.
• ”…changes can be made at any time.” We can and will do whatever TF we want; please go away.
• missing features “…will return…” And I’ll select the correct 6 numbers for the lottery, and a Victoria’s Secret model wants to share coffee with me.
• ”Our Customer Relations team…” Really? Such a thing exists? Must be a UK thing right?

You in the UK benefit from actual consumer protection laws and policies, unlike here in the colonies. Yes, we sue anyone for anything at the drop of a hat but you have real protections in place. Good luck with your suit!

 

[CWT3LR]

Well, if you were ever looking for a perfect example to demonstrate the law behind Unfair Contract Terms, there you go.

That's a slam dunk - one party unilaterally deciding what is a material change in what you ordered. And then a few sentences later admitting that what you have received cannot undertake one of the material features on which you decided to purchase the vehicle.

Why has Tesla turned from being a company that at one point was eager to please, to now one of the shittiest around?

 

[CWT3LR]

Tesla’s response to me notifying them of my Trading Standards report:

we hope you understand that we must treat all our customers and owners with the same level of integrity and honesty regarding product changes.

Whoever wrote this at Tesla has a well developed sense of humour at least!

 

[MrBadger]

Whoever wrote this at Tesla has a well developed sense of humour at least!

Probably used chatgpt - scratch that, chatgpt would have done a better job…

​

Tesla Apology Letter​

Dear valued Tesla customer,
We at Tesla would like to sincerely apologize for not delivering the promised features in your vehicle. We understand how disappointing it can be to not have access to features that were advertised and expected, and we truly apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.

We assure you that our team is working tirelessly to address these issues and deliver on our promises. However, as you know, creating cutting-edge technology and pushing the boundaries of innovation takes time, and we apologize for not being able to deliver on our initial timeline.

We also understand that some customers may have questions about the delays or lack of updates on the situation. We would like to take this opportunity to remind our customers that we are always happy to help and provide information through our world-renowned customer service, which can be reached by simply waiting on hold for several hours or being redirected to a series of unhelpful automated messages.

Again, we apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused, and we thank you for your patience and understanding as we work to make Tesla the best it can be.

Sincerely, Tesla (the company that can make a car drive itself, but can't seem to deliver on basic features)

 

[CWT3LR]

Probably used chatgpt - scratch that, chatgpt would have done a better job…

​

Tesla Apology Letter​

Dear valued Tesla customer,
We at Tesla would like to sincerely apologize for not delivering the promised features in your vehicle. We understand how disappointing it can be to not have access to features that were advertised and expected, and we truly apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.

We assure you that our team is working tirelessly to address these issues and deliver on our promises. However, as you know, creating cutting-edge technology and pushing the boundaries of innovation takes time, and we apologize for not being able to deliver on our initial timeline.

We also understand that some customers may have questions about the delays or lack of updates on the situation. We would like to take this opportunity to remind our customers that we are always happy to help and provide information through our world-renowned customer service, which can be reached by simply waiting on hold for several hours or being redirected to a series of unhelpful automated messages.

Again, we apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused, and we thank you for your patience and understanding as we work to make Tesla the best it can be.

Sincerely, Tesla (the company that can make a car drive itself, but can't seem to deliver on basic features)

Quick, put a copyright notice on it or they will pinch it!

 

[Pandinium]

Wonder if it was an American who responded who isn’t aware of UK consumer rights and assumes US policy would apply ?

Martin Lewis has some posts about this sort of thing.

 

[Ratch]

My thoughts...

We can confirm the vehicle was as advertised as having Tesla Vision included as part of your vehicle’s configuration at point of order.

The product lists parking assistance and auto-parkling as a feature - that's what I bought/ I didn't;t buy 'TeslaVision.' In any case, what IS TeslaVision as of right now? As in exactly what does it do - not what it kinda does or what it MIGHT do.

The decision to remove the Ultra-Sonic Sensors, which previously supported the park assist feature, was made in the interest of developing the features of our vehicles.

Total BS. Also, implies TV will be superior to a system using USS. Which brings us to...

The reduction in different sensory inputs simplifies the vehicle’s understanding of its environment, allowing maximum focus towards interpretation of visionary inputs, which enables greater capacity for other and additional features.

LOL. This is why you're adding MORE cameras PLUS radar back into newer models. AND you were still building cars with USS in some markets and not in others. I'm no engineer but removing a valuable source of sensor data cannot lead to increased function. Especially not in close-quarter parking situations.

but we are working promptly to develop software to re-enable this feature which you can expect to be available soon.

It's been over 6 months. I don't believe it will ever arrive but this is an important part of the argument - I doubt any court would allow a manufacturer to have to an open-ended delivery date on features they marketed, offered and SOLD to customers. I could sell the car by the time this is delivered - what then?

Like any products, changes can be made at any time.

Another important point. A new phenomenon for the car market as Teslas are so heavily reliant on software but in general no, you cannot change someone's car / toaster / sofa AFTER you've sold it to them - and certainly not for the worse.

some features of Tesla Vision remain available therefore there is no contractual discrepancy as you have stated. When released, Tesla vision will use the vehicles cameras to assist with parking. The cameras are still available to you currently therefore we deny the product has been mis sold to you.

The cameras are definitely NOT available to me 100% of the time. So if the plan is to rely on the cameras more for TV then we're in trouble.

 

[CWT3LR]

My thoughts...


The product lists parking assistance and auto-parkling as a feature - that's what I bought/ I didn't;t buy 'TeslaVision.' In any case, what IS TeslaVision as of right now? As in exactly what does it do - not what it kinda does or what it MIGHT do.


Total BS. Also, implies TV will be superior to a system using USS. Which brings us to...


LOL. This is why you're adding MORE cameras PLUS radar back into newer models. AND you were still building cars with USS in some markets and not in others. I'm no engineer but removing a valuable source of sensor data cannot lead to increased function. Especially not in close-quarter parking situations.


It's been over 6 months. I don't believe it will ever arrive but this is an important part of the argument - I doubt any court would allow a manufacturer to have to an open-ended delivery date on features they marketed, offered and SOLD to customers. I could sell the car by the time this is delivered - what then?


Another important point. A new phenomenon for the car market as Teslas are so heavily reliant on software but in general no, you cannot change someone's car / toaster / sofa AFTER you've sold it to them - and certainly not for the worse.



The cameras are definitely NOT available to me 100% of the time. So if the plan is to rely on the cameras more for TV then we're in trouble.

If the sensor was such an obstacle to developing their camera trickery - why are they still fitting them to S and X, and only deleting from 3 and Y? And why does Tesla feel like it can do what it wants to the car after you have bought it, to the point where many people feel like it isn't their car but Tesla's?

And the fact they say the cameras are available - WTF does that even mean? How can I access / disable the front cameras? Do they mean the rear camera, which all new cars in the US by law have to have fitted? What kind of a response is that?

 

[WannabeOwner]

If the sensor was such an obstacle to developing their camera trickery - why are they still fitting them to S and X, and only deleting from 3 and Y?

I thought it was already reported that they aren't fitting them to the new S /X

 

[CWT3LR]

I thought it was already reported that they aren't fitting them to the new S /X

Not yet implemented for S and X, though is proposed. "Coming soon" no doubt.

But they know that if they piss off people looking to buy £120k cars, they just go elsewhere.

 

[Billbrown1982]

That's a slam dunk - one party unilaterally deciding what is a material change in what you ordered. And then a few sentences later admitting that what you have received cannot undertake one of the material features on which you decided to purchase the vehicle.

Why has Tesla turned from being a company that at one point was eager to please, to now one of the shittiest around?

I wouldn't say shittiest around, more like "same as all the others"

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I hope you get a resolution but I’m not sure what the options are. They aren’t going to deliver you parking sensors because of this complaint, the vision based capability will arrive when it’s ready, if ever, so I think the only outs are return the car, or compensation.

But saying you’ve bought tesla vision, as if that’s the important thing and not what it can/can’t do is absolutely stupid. Imagine Microsoft selling excel and it can’t add two numbers, an iPhone that can’t make calls, sky box that doesn’t allow recordings and the answer back to all was you’d bought the product name and not the actual features..

 

[Ratch]

I hope you get a resolution but I’m not sure what the options are. They aren’t going to deliver you parking sensors because of this complaint, the vision based capability will arrive when it’s ready, if ever, so I think the only outs are return the car, or compensation.

But saying you’ve bought tesla vision, as if that’s the important thing and not what it can/can’t do is absolutely stupid. Imagine Microsoft selling excel and it can’t add two numbers, an iPhone that can’t make calls, sky box that doesn’t allow recordings and the answer back to all was you’d bought the product name and not the actual features..

Exactly this!

‘We have this amazing feature we’re working on, why not pay for it now and we’ll let you know when it’s ready… maybe.’

But this feature that doesn’t exist yet, it’s definitely fitted to my car right?

 

[Ratch]

I wouldn't say shittiest around, more like "same as all the others"

I would say shittiest EVER, in my experience.