Autopilot is getting worse, not better.

[yessuz]

FSD isnt better in the US than here because tesla 'concentrate' on the US. Its thanks to the EU. EU regulations massively restrict what any driver assistance in the UK can do. When the rules came in, summon became useless overnight, and the turn-limit for autopilot got introduced.
Tesla are trying to persuade the EU standards body on this to update the legilsation. The last I heard it was likely late this year or early next.
We may be out of the EU, but AFAIK we follow their rules on this topic. Its likely delayed because EU car policy is dictated by Germany, which is dictated by Volkswagen who... are not the market leader in ADAS.

The good news is that there are UK-based tesla test-drivers currently testing UK-roads versions of autopilot (apparently...there were jobs listings), in anticipation of the rules changing.
I knew FSD was nerfed when I bought my model Y, but figured if I have to wait a year or 2 for it to get enabled, then thats fine. I suspect the minute it is enabled, the price will rise.

FWIW I do some long 3.5 hour motorway trips here and autopilot is pretty flawless for me. Daytime trips, all weathers, 2022 model Y without parking sensors. I only use it on A roads or motorways.

Thisnis BS regarding EU.
Mercedes have it working as level 3 system. Tesla is not l3

 

[cliff harris]

Its not bullshit, its the law, but if you want to be angry anyway, feel free.

 

[qwickshot]

It’s been hammering it down with rain all day and the roads were pretty awful, spray, low visibility, other drivers without lights on, standing water etc.

Auto pilot and the wipers just worked. Not sure what else to say about it

Thisnis BS regarding EU.
Mercedes have it working as level 3 system. Tesla is not l3

Up to 40mph, mapped motorways only. So yeh completely useless but don’t let a good headline get in the way of anything.

 

[Billbrown1982]

It’s been hammering it down with rain all day and the roads were pretty awful, spray, low visibility, other drivers without lights on, standing water etc.

Auto pilot and the wipers just worked. Not sure what else to say about it



Up to 40mph, mapped motorways only. So yeh completely useless but don’t let a good headline get in the way of anything.

Interestingly, as someone who uses it day in day out for the last 2 years, I had a 4 hour drive yesterday in that awful weather and although everything worked fine, it was constantly chiming at me, poor weather detected, but it would switch NoA on and off almost immediately and then back off again and so on. Did start getting a bit peeved off with it by the end.

Not sure if a recent update has changed something there.

Generally I don't complain about it, other than not getting FSD as promised, but what I do have works pretty well for me at least.

 

[ACarneiro]

Auto pilot and the wipers just worked. Not sure what else to say about it

I’ve had so many experiences with mine that I’ve actually stopped trying to engage it on the motorway anymore.
Perhaps I’ll give it a try again and see if it’s improved over the last few iterations although I’ve had a few braking events going under overpasses recently so I suspect it’s not significantly better…

 

[Zilla91]

Up to 40mph, mapped motorways only. So yeh completely useless

Except it's not completely useless. I'd love something like that when I'm stuck in traffic on the M25

 

[kpanda17]

11.3 is too immature
Elon please download into my Tesla 11.4\

 

[MrBadger]

11.3 is too immature
Elon please download into my Tesla 11.4\

Please stop posting irrelevant info in UK sub form. We don’t have FSD City Streets beta in UK so comments on that are irrelevant. There is a whole sun form for chatting about FSD beta but UK sub forum is not it. UK relevant posts only please.

PS Elon doesn’t read these threads anyway…

 

[MrBadger]

Interestingly, as someone who uses it day in day out for the last 2 years, I had a 4 hour drive yesterday in that awful weather and although everything worked fine, it was constantly chiming at me, poor weather detected, but it would switch NoA on and off almost immediately and then back off again and so on. Did start getting a bit peeved off with it by the end.

Not sure if a recent update has changed something there.

Before when bad weather disabled NoA it use to be more sticky, but I agree with you, NoA now seems to flick back and forth based on conditions much more readily.

I’m not sure I get the chimes though. Although maybe I have become immune to them!

 

[Pagemakers]

yep you get bong bong bong, bing bing bing if you are on the cusp of bad weather for hours on end unless you disconnect NOA.

 

[WannabeOwner]

so to transition for the UK is possible though with some very narrow roads (like Cornwall)- we have to either mount the verge or pull into a "passing place" to allow a vehicle in the opposite direction to get by and sometimes meet between a passing place - so one driver reverses to the previous passing place.

I read a number of posts saying "UK roads are different to USA". I've been all over USA on business and I've seen just about every sort of road, including single track have-to-yield ... I'm not convinced that the UK has unique roads ... well Swindon Magic roundabout maybe.

Chuck's videos show "zone" housing around his home, where the access road is only just wide enough for two cars to pass (not the same as single track). FSD slows to a stop and pulls over rather than passing, as a driver would - which Chuck overrides if there is someone behind him. To me that's just one area where "FSD is not quite there yet". Single track will be a step-up from that (a wide load, on that sort of narrow road, would require the same "Find a passing place" action)

I've also seen his YouTube where his car stops behind a double parked car, with a double white dividing line, and then FSD decides to cross the double white line, to pass, once oncoming traffic clears, which is an example of a problem-solution that suggests to me that FSD will cope - although I have no idea when it will be "finished", watching YouTubes I see plenty of stuff that is just plain wrong. Latest one from Chuck is a dual carriageway overpass - with an off ramp slip down to lights / junction underneath. FSD, in one direction, slows to a stop on the overpass - as if it was on the slip down to the lights. Opposite direction FSD works fine, but whether the cause is map error, GPS off by a few feet ... or something else ... 99% isn't good enough, and I doubt that "Five-9s" is either. When will that be and how will FSD ever get there? ... I'll be wanting a lot of reassurance that that won't happen to me ...

I know some people swear their cars fsd performance is fine

Just to clarify from my perspective. I would not score it as "fine" (to have paid money for ...), just as "good enough" to use routinely. I engage AP as I join dual carriageway and then let it get on with it, and intervene if I feel the need (most commonly to tap accelerator to get it to get on with it after lane clears), but I look forward to it being better (e.g. the FSD promise delivered). Right now me plus AP is better than me on my own, and I'm pleased to have that extra scout-lookout which has saved me from some incidents over the years and one day might save my life.

other than not getting FSD as promised, but what I do have works pretty well for me at least.

That sums it up for me too

I’ve had so many experiences with mine that I’ve actually stopped trying to engage it on the motorway anymore.

That just never happens for me. I engage it the moment I am on dual carriageway and leave it on. Finding out what is different would be useful, seems a pity, to me, that I (and some others on here) don't have a problem, yet others, such as yourself, do.

 

[FastLaneJB]

The start, stop traffic is the worst I’ve ever had in a car. Car in the front slowly moves forwards a bit and the car decides to launch itself forwards then brake pretty aggressively almost straight away when it gets too close to car in front. I’ve had other cars where I didn’t really use it because it was a bit jerky but this goes to a whole new level. Current BMW and Land Rover systems I’ve experienced nail this nicely.

Same also with just how slow it accelerates when the speed limit changes. I always push the accelerator myself because otherwise I think you’d measure the time it takes to get from 50 to 70 say in minutes, not seconds.

I really wish they’d bring some of the FSD Beta updates in the US to the UK. Sure block it so it only works on Motorways / A roads or something. Not asking for the full FSD yet (I ain’t paid for it anyway) but just let those years worth of improvements flow through to other countries.

 

[FastLaneJB]

People complaining about automated windshield wipers can simply use them manually. Push the little button everytime you desire a swipe. This is that way people were using them for the past Century.

You could switch back to a horse and carriage also but the world has moved on. Automatic wipers is a standard feature on all cars now, other than Tesla they all seem to work just fine also. It’s not new technology, it’s been around for ages.

 

[Pink Duck]

It wouldn’t surprise me if the EC_Mode of EAP is being trained from the FSD Beta single-stack update (running in shadow mode). So that could explain some reduction in quality lately. Plus the loss of radar sensor/fusion input after Tesla Vision.

 

[Pagemakers]

The start, stop traffic is the worst I’ve ever had in a car. Car in the front slowly moves forwards a bit and the car decides to launch itself forwards then brake pretty aggressively almost straight away when it gets too close to car in front. I’ve had other cars where I didn’t really use it because it was a bit jerky but this goes to a whole new level. Current BMW and Land Rover systems I’ve experienced nail this nicely.

Same also with just how slow it accelerates when the speed limit changes. I always push the accelerator myself because otherwise I think you’d measure the time it takes to get from 50 to 70 say in minutes, not seconds.

I really wish they’d bring some of the FSD Beta updates in the US to the UK. Sure block it so it only works on Motorways / A roads or something. Not asking for the full FSD yet (I ain’t paid for it anyway) but just let those years worth of improvements flow through to other countries.

And this all happened when the car transitioned to vision only. Before that the car worked fine in stop start traffic and autopilot was better overall.

 

[MrBadger]

Latest one from Chuck is a dual carriageway overpass - with an off ramp slip down to lights / junction underneath. FSD, in one direction, slows to a stop on the overpass - as if it was on the slip down to the lights. Opposite direction FSD works fine, but whether the cause is map error, GPS off by a few feet ... or something else ... 99% isn't good enough, and I doubt that "Five-9s" is either. When will that be and how will FSD ever get there? ... I'll be wanting a lot of reassurance that that won't happen to me ...

I had hoped that issue had been sorted in new stack. Over here quite a few phantom braking events that I have had is down to current route seemingly not being aware what level of road it is on and then selecting speed limit of adjacent level road.

Even when navigating on a motorway route it has more than once slowed rapidly to adhere to speed limit of road it was crossing of adjacent intersection none of which were on the navigation route it was following and some even impossible to have suddenly be transported to, ie bridge over a different road. eg M26 (70mph) east bound crossing over M20 (variable speed limit?) to then join.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3069812,0.3538999,21z?entry=ttu

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

We do have different regulations in the UK and Europe compared to the US - are they worse?

- Summon - we require a "dead mans handle" approach, ie, any loss in communication and the car will stop. And Tesla chose to use a protocol where the comms can be eaily broken, even if temporarily, and so the car stops.
- Advanced Summon - I believe its actually possible in the UK, but we have a requirement that it needs to be a distance from a public road. Do we really want cars driving around the local Asda car park with nobody behind the wheel? Based on the videos I've seen, and that Tesla are still level 2 and driver is responsible, no thanks. It is just a matter of time before a kid gets run over in the US with advanced summon
- Lane change. We can (or could) do everything they do in the US with one stipulation, we have a requirement for the driver to acknowledge the action before it happens. Now this is L2 driving, the driver is still responsbile. If this was BMWs L2 etc we'd just tap the indicator and all would work. completing in the rquired time period and without issue. But Tesla make it difficult, and the Tesla implementation fails to complete in the required time and aborts.

I could go on.

So (before we look at the FSDb city streets software), Tesla haven't taken any regard for the regulations we have in the design and have half heartedly retro fitted the rules which is why they fail on a Tesla and do not fail on the competition. Lets also look at our death rates compared to the US, we have about 1/5 (yes, for every 1 death in the UK, the US have 5) per head of population. Musk wants his self driving to be 2 or 3 or 4x safer than the average - in the UK thats still WORSE

Then lets look at Level 3, the Merc system. Tesla haven't done a single L3 mile yet as an aside. They've started with a safe condition and over time will increase it. Now anybody who thinks the limitation is the system, think again. The Merc system reverts to Level 2 as speeds increase, and it works perfectly well at those higher speeds, albeit now with the driver ready to take over if required - exactly how Tesla operate all the time, The ONLY reason why it is limited at L3 is to build trust - it is not because the system is incapable.

City streets - I've not seen a single video that reminds me of UK road conditions. Maybe there are some, but I've not seen them.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Even when navigating on a motorway route it has more than once slowed rapidly to adhere to speed limit of road it was crossing of adjacent intersection none of which were on the navigation route it was following and some even impossible to have suddenly be transported to, ie bridge over a different road. eg M26 (70mph) east bound crossing over M20 (variable speed limit?) to then join.

I've had one where there was a road works speed limit (big road works, layout changed, long interval) that caused slowdown for a year, maybe more, after the work was completed. My guess is that map-data faults / stale data contribute to this, 3rd party data outside Tesla's hands, maybe, but the fact that cars (Tesla, but others too) are doing a dramatically different speed to the map data should be enough to provide exceptions that enable resolution and thus the data quality would improve over time / promptly! - Tesla could do that internally, or share that data with their provider.

If was buying 3rd party data I'd want a clause in the contract to get compensation where faulty data caused an increased-cost for me ... and if I was selling data, and wanted it to be best-of-breed, I'd have a bounty for error-correction - and the ability to patch the data using minimal data packets rather than wait many months and then have an infrequent, monster, update.

Tesla haven't taken any regard for the regulations we have

Seems fine to me. Build a USA system first, and then build a worldwide system second ... or territory-by-territory second if individual territories are indeed significantly different.

The job is hard (as it turns out ...) and trying to do all possible customer scenarios at once would be harder still, add complexity, and slow the project down.

 

[Pink Duck]

I've noticed my own doing exactly that lately with regards to faulty DB/vision speed limit detection. For example, driving at 40 mph past a side road with dual 30 mph signs, AP switches to show the 30 mph speed but car continues at 40 mph until the faulty DB limit ends. So a form of positive re-enforcement from a learned correction. However, in the opposite direction an absolute deafening mix of bells/chimes when trying to drive past a green arrow traffic light (and after it).

 

[MrT3]

And this all happened when the car transitioned to vision only. Before that the car worked fine in stop start traffic and autopilot was better overall.

I don't totally agree here. I'm pretty sure my M3 would aggressively accelerate and then slam on the brakes in stop/start traffic before the radar was disabled. The code is poorly written whatever sensor they use.