FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

I normally hate when people keeps posting “I didn’t get it yet,” but I didn’t get it yet.

Just so we all know we are not alone.

And to everyone who is posting their "first drive with 11.3" summaries: I hate you all (until I get mine, of course).

 

[JB47394]

Changed into a right turn only lane at 77 MPH while navigation displayed (correctly) to continue straight. It was a standard and well marked decel lane that terminated at the turn.

I encountered that on 10.69 at one location with a 45 mph speed limit. I just did that drive on 11.3 and FSD now makes that move on that road at multiple locations. However, the ribbon clearly indicates a desire for a move into the turn lane, the car signals, moves into the turn lane, then quickly moves back out again. It's idiotic behavior, but I only encounter it on that one road. I see nothing unusual about the exits that would invite this behavior.

 

[Mardak]

Catching up on all the initial 11.3.3 impressions from Sunday. Thanks for all the details!

all turns were smooth and acceleration through the turn

It's better than 10.69.x for sure

Seems much more confident overall

My faith in eventually being able to take a nap in back while it drives to New York is restored

11.3.3 is noticeably smoother and lane changes are more refined and human like

Overall, FSD is delivering a smoother drive

I'm extremely impressed

I immediately noticed that it was accelerating and stopping more smoothly pretty much under all conditions

overall deceleration is smoother

there was no phantom braking or incorrect routing so far!

Sounds like 11.3.x is a great update quite a bit better than 10.x in multiple aspects. With a 35% randomized rollout, neither of our vehicles getting the update is actually less probable ~40%, but hopefully we won't have to wait much longer to experience these improvements.

 

[ljbad4life]

Running red lights is not comparable to passing on the right, neither is driving on the sidewalk.

Again, almost all drivers will pass on the right when necessary, just like 95+% go over the speed limit. Trying to be rigid to things like that would make FSD completely fail. Could you imagine if you couldn't exceed the speed limit at all? What about when signs were wrong? What if you could cross a double yellow, even to avoid a wreck?

There's some common sense logic here.

Imagine if FSDb decided on its on to go 100mph, why not? If the person or entity who is legally responsible decides the break the law, they suffer the consequences. You're asserting that FSDb is the driver it is not, it is a driver's assistant tool and should not be making legally dubious choices of a driver for the sake of speed. Nothing to do with safety. This is what the NHTSA has stated about the rolling stops and the going through stale yellows and speeding through intersections.

What you seem to lack the grasp of the system is designed to break the law at its own behest while bearing no responsibility of the consequences. Full stop. That's not common sense but poor design.

 

[Dewg]

One of my favorite pass times is reading these threads when a new update is released. It always begins with a .0, which is internal. Then .1 goes out to a few select testers, and the clamoring commences. By the time .2 is released, there's anger, jealousy, and that's usually when the Faustian bargaining begins. The cloud of fur and feathers hits the peak when .3 is released, and the dust begins to settle. Both sides are at DEFCON 2, "this update is utter crap!" and "what are you talking about?! This update is amazing!" I just enjoy some popcorn and smile, while waiting patiently for the final update to hit my car.

 

[kabin]

Every single time I have disengaged AP or FSD, it has been because of invalid routing/decision making….not because it couldn’t “see”.

For me it's been the norm since they added the stop sign crawl feature. If I can't see lateral traffic flow neither can the B pillar camera.

I had to disengage V11.3.3 this morning at a right intersection after FSD did its characteristic slow down early, crawl to crosswalk, and then punch it into the intersection without visibility of oncoming traffic. It's odd to be so careful and then toss the dice with overzealous blind throttle entrance into traffic flow. A safe driver stops at the cross walk and as needed moves forward until traffic is visible before safely turning.

 

[SO16]

For me it's been the norm since they added the stop sign crawl feature. If I can't see lateral traffic flow neither can the B pillar camera.

I had to disengage V11.3.3 this morning at a right intersection after FSD did its characteristic slow down early, crawl to crosswalk, and then punch it into the intersection without visibility of oncoming traffic. It's odd to be so careful and then toss the dice with overzealous blind throttle entrance into traffic flow. A safe driver stops at the cross walk and as needed moves forward until traffic is visible before safely turning.

I never said the extra cameras wouldn’t be helpful. I’m sure there are plenty of use cases (as you pointed out).

Just not needed in Chuck’s turn issue nor my situations.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Imagine if FSDb decided on its on to go 100mph, why not? If the person or entity who is legally responsible decides the break the law, they suffer the consequences. You're asserting that FSDb is the driver it is not, it is a driver's assistant tool and should not be making legally dubious choices of a driver for the sake of speed. Nothing to do with safety. This is what the NHTSA has stated about the rolling stops and the going through stale yellows and speeding through intersections.

What you seem to lack the grasp of the system is designed to break the law at its own behest while bearing no responsibility of the consequences. Full stop. That's not common sense but poor design.

You are trying to create a Strawman with outrageous examples. Again, if you are passing a car in the right lane and then there's a slow car in the left lane that won't move...the car should pass on the right. That's the equivalent of being able to go over the speed limit or break double yellow to avoid an obstacle. Your examples of driving on the sidewalk or going 100 mph randomly are ridiculous.

Tell me...if there's a slow car in the left lane do you just suck it up and stay behind them forever? There's no way I believe that, because that's not how people drive.

It seems like you are suggesting that FSD Beta shouldn't even be able to exceed the speed limit or avoid obstacles or anything that doesn't follow the letter of the law. That would create unnatural driving and people would be deterred from using it.

Most pass on the right when there's a slower car in the left lane. I drive all over the country and it's as common as going 5 over the speed limit.
If you don't want it to occur, disengage, but the goal of FSD Beta is to remain engaged as much as possible and normal drivers exceed the speed limit and pass on the right when it's required.

 

[vamike]

One of my favorite pass times is reading these threads when a new update is released. It always begins with a .0, which is internal. Then .1 goes out to a few select testers, and the clamoring commences. By the time .2 is released, there's anger, jealousy, and that's usually when the Faustian bargaining begins. The cloud of fur and feathers hits the peak when .3 is released, and the dust begins to settle. Both sides are at DEFCON 2, "this update is utter crap!" and "what are you talking about?! This update is amazing!" I just enjoy some popcorn and smile, while waiting patiently for the final update to hit my car.

Lol, I am the same way. In fact, the only way I know an update is truly better is when I see the usual "this update is utter crap" posters saying neutral to even positive things.

 

[jj3884]

A few observations on my 40 mile drive using major Interstates.

Pros
Wayyyy better with lane centering/bias
Love the Minimal Lane Change Button. Sometimes, especially if the car is driving. I like having my limit at 80mph but don't mind it following cars at a much slower speed.

Cons
Still existing HOV lanes even though the planner is set to use. I'm talking about, exiting to follow route when the next route change is 10+ miles away.
Changing lanes to faster lane that is ending... Still occurs.

Neutral
Full stop at stop signs. Meh, doesn't bother as much as I thought it might. I didn't really have hesitation through stops, but I have seen that on videos and honestly I don't care that much about FSD on city streets other than when it's enabled it not being jerky or causing accidents

One thing I didn't notice, though it happens more on my way back..., Whether or not stop signs or traffic lights not on the freeway trip up Vision. Hopefully that issue is fixed

I know one spot that it always does it at on my way back so

 

[JulienW]

Here is an interesting and unique take. Chris uses ChatGTP to plan a more challenging route for Beta to drive.

 

[aronth5]

Took a 2 mile city/street drive with 11.3.3 that I have done a few hundred times. 10 issues since I first used FSD.
Was pleasantly surprised that 9 were fixed including phantom braking problems. improved turning, lane alignment and better handling of stop signs. In general just a more comfortable drive.
Remaining problem:

• Large Roundabout- Still comes to a complete stop before proceeding. Normal driving behavior without cars already in the roundabout would be to enter about 20mph.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The previous version for him worked really well. You should watch the video.

I agree with you that performance has nothing to do with sensors - they seem to be good enough for his turn.

But his last attempt on the previous version had three disengagements, stopped in the middle of the road, so was successful either 1/8 times or 5/8 times depending on how you count (obviously the score is irrelevant- those are basically the same score for our purposes!).

With a 35% randomized rollout,

Maybe they are rolling it to people with lowest disengagement rates first. Or highest FSD mileage. That could explain things.

Gonna be sad if I don't get it until 11.3.4, and then it doesn't live up to the hype, but then people just claim the prior version was better.

Of course, this follows a long-established pattern of everyone being excited about the new improvements (and undoubtedly there are many), and then being disappointed at all the failings (which are well documented here already). And then everyone will be waiting on the "all NNs use video" transition, and the "NN planner." For the next 6-9 months presumably.

 

[EVNow]

I had to disengage V11.3.3 this morning at a right intersection after FSD did its characteristic slow down early, crawl to crosswalk, and then punch it into the intersection without visibility of oncoming traffic. It's odd to be so careful and then toss the dice with overzealous blind throttle entrance into traffic flow. A safe driver stops at the cross walk and as needed moves forward until traffic is visible before safely turning.

Fast turns at empty intersections is still a head-scratcher. Only thing I can think of is - they want to get to the max speed quickly to avoid being rear-ended by cars that FSDb couldn't see .... not a high probability event.

 

[eli_]

I really don't like this "exiting rightmost lane" behavior on the highway, it causes the car to enter the leftmost passing lane and folks will angrily undertake you. It makes you look like a shitty driver, which there are many to be fair.

 

[Twiglett]

I was away from wifi this weekend and came back to an update from 10.69.25.2 to 11.3.3
No chance to drive it yet though, maybe later today.

 

[Therealm80]

Dammit. No update for me today

 

[bayareaever]

Dammit. No update for me today

Same here. I have no ultrasonic sensors on my car. I wonder if that has something to do with it? Do others without USS have the update yet?

 

[top1105]

Same here. I have no ultrasonic sensors on my car. I wonder if that has something to do with it? Do others without USS have the update yet?

I have USS and still no update.

 

[Autonomoose]

Still waiting (impatiently) for the update. I blew my software check yesterday morning at 10 AM. Today it goes off and checks, thinks for a little bit, and still comes back as up-to-date as of 10 AM yesterday. I’m choosing to believe this means they are deliberating my worthiness and will roll it out to me momentarily.