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aerodyne
2 of 3 EV's - Defect Free!
I've said it before, but they need a clone of her to run Tesla...Yes, I saw her speak in 2019 at an investor conference and spoke with her briefly. She's clearly running the show even if her official title is COO and President. She is also one of their first employees and on the board of directors. They asked her how involved Elon was and she laughed the question off. She clearly doesn't suffer fools.
GoBlue88
Member
This is a key point: Tesla has an enormous advantage with the supercharger network. If I'm never going on a roadtrip longer than 350 miles roundtrip then sure, one of the high-range alternatives might work for me. If I'm on a road trip longer than that, there's no way I'd want to take any BEV other than a Tesla. Even relying on destination chargers is risky - I've found at many hotels that they either aren't working or are occupied.
Wonder if the lack of advertising is hurting Tesla on this point. So many people I've talked to have never heard of a supercharger and have no idea how extensive Tesla's US network is. I got paired up in a golf round last week with a car dealer visiting the San Diego area from Boston. He saw my Tesla hat so we had some interesting conversations during the round, heh. He was part of a group of dealers that sued Tesla in Massachusetts over their DTC model, so one would think he'd know at least a little something about his adversary's products. Despite that, he had never heard of the Tesla supercharger network and didn't know what a supercharger is. He also whined that Volvo is apparently going to sell their BEVs DTC instead of using the dealer network and claimed that the dealership model is "under attack" (with good reason, I thought). So I explained superchargers to him, and pointed out that dealers knowing nothing about EVs is reason #1 why EV makers don't want to use dealers.
I do think that Tesla could use some advertising that includes marketing around superchargers. The supercharger network is a massive point of differentiation over other BEVs that are coming on to the market.
T-Racer
Member
I very much like that you took the time to meet her in person. We are all sitting around speculating and need more first hand info here. I wish we had someone with some hands-on knowledge on the refresh! I totally agree that putting someone like this in charge at Tesla would be a big step forward!Yes, I saw her speak in 2019 at an investor conference and spoke with her briefly. She's clearly running the show even if her official title is COO and President. She is also one of their first employees and on the board of directors. They asked her how involved Elon was and she laughed the question off. She clearly doesn't suffer fools.
T-Racer
Member
Agreed! Whether it is actual advertising or presenting a unified message (isn't there a department for that?) it is a key part of defining a market and strategy.This is a key point: Tesla has an enormous advantage with the supercharger network. If I'm never going on a roadtrip longer than 350 miles roundtrip then sure, one of the high-range alternatives might work for me. If I'm on a road trip longer than that, there's no way I'd want to take any BEV other than a Tesla. Even relying on destination chargers is risky - I've found at many hotels that they either aren't working or are occupied.
Wonder if the lack of advertising is hurting Tesla on this point. So many people I've talked to have never heard of a supercharger and have no idea how extensive Tesla's US network is. I got paired up in a golf round last week with a car dealer visiting the San Diego area from Boston. He saw my Tesla hat so we had some interesting conversations during the round, heh. He was part of a group of dealers that sued Tesla in Massachusetts over their DTC model, so one would think he'd know at least a little something about his adversary's products. Despite that, he had never heard of the Tesla supercharger network and didn't know what a supercharger is. He also whined that Volvo is apparently going to sell their BEVs DTC instead of using the dealer network and claimed that the dealership model is "under attack" (with good reason, I thought). So I explained superchargers to him, and pointed out that dealers knowing nothing about EVs is reason #1 why EV makers don't want to use dealers.
I do think that Tesla could use some advertising that includes marketing around superchargers. The supercharger network is a massive point of differentiation over other BEVs that are coming on to the market.
Also, your comments about dealer's lack of understanding it spot on. It is rare that I've ever learned anything that turned out to be true for a car dealer. I tend to like to do a lot of research before buying and would have thought the "professional" at the dealer would know more than I do... but I have yet to see it.
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
Because of this manufacturing delay, you question whether Tesla will continue to develop and sell the S/X series? Seriously?
Hayseed_MS
Spreader of "Endless Non Sequitur"
I have thought that too but I think that unless the delay cannot be overcome, it will continue delayed.
I personally think he is spot on. Tesla is looking to have a larger install base and sell software to it. Think apple, only cars. They also will soon be selling insurance on their cars directly to us. It’s all about TAM and cash flow. They could give two “sugars” about high-margin, low volume models. They are looking to aggressively grow the base. Look for them to announce a new mini-car to be manufactured in Europe during the call today. They don’t want to compete in the high-end, high service space.
fakerlind
Member
I still believe that the higher-end cars are needed from a brand perspective. The fact that kids on the streets (at least on this side of the pond) shout "look dad, a TESLA!" still stems from it being perceived as a premium, 100k car, which is really important for the overall sales figures from the Tesla brand.
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I suggest we all get acclimated to a universe where S/X are not one of Elon's priorities. In fact, just about the only people on Earth to whom the refresh is a priority is.... us.Probably FSD, and the Texas factory. It’s obviously not the refresh. Elon’s priority seems to be SpaceX.
Increasingly I am looking at the S as more of the Tesla Cadillac than the Tesla Mercedes competitor. I think it makes sense to continue them from that standpoint, as a sort musclecar halo of sorts.
I have a much harder time seeing where the X fits into things. Its telling that we essentially never see Musk near one. I think its also going to be a hard sell when they almost-inevitably introduce larger SUVs at lower prices than the X.
TBH, I don't even necessarily see this outcome as bad news for S fans. Its a pretty good outcome to end up being a tech demonstrator with things like the Plaid+.
What. I'm more of an S guy myself but Musk is seen exclusively in a Model X when he's traveling around the world. Plus it's the vehicle of choice for SpaceX when flying astronauts.
Model X isn't for you if you want a large or cheaper SUV.
To some extent you may be right, but you’re not taking into account the size of “Tesla’s” ego. They’ve spent way too much energy claiming superiority over the Tycan, they’re not about to step away from the performance battle they’ve entered with Porsche. They will continue to create a flagship sedan as long as their rival does because it’s good for their ego and brand perception.
Y'know, there were some other words on either side of that sentence that added context.
The S and X were the cash cows that got us to the 3 and the Y. Now that the 3 and Y generate most of the cash for the company, at some point it no longer makes sense to reduce investment in those models as they are no longer strategic (those are Musk's words) and prioritize investing in platforms that they feel are more aligned with company vision such as the CT, semi, the rumored $25K car and the high-density urban transport.
I am sure Tesla will keep making the S and X as long as folks keep buying them, but the S has been on a slow decline for a couple of years now. The refresh might help flatten that a but emerging credible competition might also accelerate the trend.
Alright, alright, here we are 3.5 hours away from the enlightenment.
Because I need the $10, I'm taking @Hayseed_MS up on his offer.
1) I think our friend Elon states today that deliveries for the S are expected to start towards the end of Q2 (June) and X will follow slightly thereafter.
2) This is a trick question, because I doubt he's unlikely to give a reason, but if he does, I think Elon will state that the vehicles needed further testing and validation before launch.
OK - Hayseed, my guy. LMK when you have an envelope ready to send me my 10 bucks. Hoping to use that as a down payment on my Model S in August.
Because I need the $10, I'm taking @Hayseed_MS up on his offer.
1) I think our friend Elon states today that deliveries for the S are expected to start towards the end of Q2 (June) and X will follow slightly thereafter.
2) This is a trick question, because I doubt he's unlikely to give a reason, but if he does, I think Elon will state that the vehicles needed further testing and validation before launch.
OK - Hayseed, my guy. LMK when you have an envelope ready to send me my 10 bucks. Hoping to use that as a down payment on my Model S in August.
This presents an interesting issue from a branding perspective. Toyota would be better off if they were one brand with Lexus. But Lexus would be worse off because they would be associated with lower quality cars.
Here, it seems clear to me that Tesla should continue making high-end cars for the reason you said. I do not think the Model 3 is hurting people's impressions of the Model S.
aerodyne
2 of 3 EV's - Defect Free!
They could always slide the refresh to the left of the Roadster schedule, and still have plausible deniability that the Refresh is in trouble.
The S should be an important vehicle for Tesla to compete against the Lucid Air, the EQS, the Taycan, etc... Also, the profit margins on plaid should be pretty healthy considering they're charging $40k more for an extra motor and a few other bits. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if they discontinue the X at some point after the Cyber truck is out. Maybe also a 100kw Model Y with Ludicrous.
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