FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[vamike]

Looks like the release notes for 11.4.5 are identical to 11.4.4, so not likely to see any meaningful improvement of lane discipline

I think nothing new in the notes is best for "meaningful improvement", so they can tweak 4.4 to work as intended vs adding new stuff. Same reason 3.6 works best for most people but the new capabilities of 4.x (albeit perhaps needed for the long-term) broke the 3.6 stability for many

 

[rlsd]

I think nothing new in the notes is best for "meaningful improvement", so they can tweak 4.4 to work as intended vs adding new stuff. Same reason 3.6 works best for most people but the new capabilities of 4.x (albeit perhaps needed for the long-term) broke the 3.6 stability for many

Probably it fixes Ross Gerber stop sign issue.
I hope it fixes crazy lane changing issue and indecisive left/right turn behaviors.

 

[JulienW]

Looks like the release notes for 11.4.5 are identical to 11.4.4, so not likely to see any meaningful improvement of lane discipline

Wish Whole Mars would tell Elon to update 11.4.x to the 23.20.x branch.

 

[Todd Burch]

Not a F’n chance. Zero probability given these are low volume models.

@WilliamG thinks they will, I heard!

If you are vibrating at certain speeds, you might want to check to see if you have a bent wheel from a pothole or a flat that you drove on too far. Sometimes these are hard to find (they are sometimes on the inside of the wheel and will put a wheel so far out of balance that a normal tire balancing can't account for it. I have this problem right now after hitting a nasty pothole.

 

[PR0FESSOR]

The pothole is apparently on the Model S assembly line. Many of us, including me, have had this from day one.

Joe

 

[LSDTester#1]

How did they fix yours? Jeb and I have been vibrating for almost 2 years!

Yeah. I was kidding. Sorry.

 

[Genie]

The pothole is apparently on the Model S assembly line. Many of us, including me, have had this from day one.

Joe

I thought FSDb aims for them

 

[kabin]

You're right. Now, Threads apparently can collect medical, private information, at least right now. I just read about that on the first page of the article while my hair turned white(er) and, no, not right now .

I finally got on to pp. 3, and got the following:

So, I get it. If one isn't paying for the product, then one is the product. That's how Twitter/Facebook/Threads/et. al. work. The rest (like Mastodon) may be free, but it's volunteer work supported by contributions.

And I still remember Cablevision's terms of service: On one paragraph, they say, "Protecting your privacy is important to us! We make a point of anonymizing your data so nobody can track you."

Then, several paragraphs later, they state, "We run de-anonymizing services." What?

I run with very few Javascripts turned on. And use an ad blocker. So, Twitter? Guess they have to make their money, and making money means taking as many moves as I make on the Internet down on their clipboard and selling it to as many people far and wide as they can. I would object if somebody physically followed me around downtown and watched my every move; why shouldn't I object to Twitter and the like?

It's good to try a kitchen sink approach like - use a good VPN, setup a local network, setup a firewall, replace default ISP DNS, use encrypted email service, use private browsers, use good malware protection, use complicated passwords, 2FA, be smart with your online presence, ...

It's odd when online forum members complain they don't have enough personal info about other forum members. Some were born to be victims.

 

[Supcom]

Using FSD 11.3.6 on a model Y, I drove from Dallas to Oklahoma City Saturday and from OKC to Santa Fe, NM Sunday. Virtually all of it on FSD. Very few disengagements - none for safety issues - mainly convenience where I didn't want to mess with it.

No phantom braking. About 850+ miles total. This includes about 500 miles on I-40. Last year, using NOA on I-40 I had a lot of PB events. This time none.

In all fairness, it was cloudy most of the day, and it wasn't in the high 90s+ temp. But, when the sun was out, there were plenty of road reflections. FSDb made the long drive a pleasure. Now, if it would more readily get out of the left lane... Virtually all interventions were manual lane changes to be courteous. At least it gave me something to do besides the wheel tug. FSDb is getting pretty boring.

Hopefully it will be hotter and sunnier for the return trip so I can get a real PB test.

 

[JulienW]

I thought FSDb aims for them

Evidently.

 

[NYMY]

Curious: Construction on the Garden State Parkway is always proceeded by a traffic speed limit sign to some unreasonably slow limit; typically, 45 mph on a road where the limit is supposedly 55, but everybody blows by at 65. And doesn't slow down for that sign.

When FSD sees the 45 mph sign it slows down for it. It feels like phantom braking, but it's not: It's just the car slowing down at the NHTSA-approved rate. In heavy, high-speed traffic.

So: When the car goes to 25 mph on the GW Parkway, is that in response to a construction speed limit sign? One can tell because the speed limit indicator in the Tesla changes.

This for sure is the most irritating thing about FSD. The speed limit suddenly changes but the traffic does not and suddenly the car slows 20+mph... Is there any way to adjust this (without just being hyper-prepared for the changes)?

 

[JHCCAZ]

This for sure is the most irritating thing about FSD. The speed limit suddenly changes but the traffic does not and suddenly the car slows 20+mph... Is there any way to adjust this (without just being hyper-prepared for the changes)?

You might recall that Tesla had previously programmed FSD beta not to slow down suddenly when it (rightly or wrongly) detected a speed limit change. I'm pretty sure that was intended to mitigate the kind of complaints described in several messages above.

However, that policy generated complaints from people who were worried about getting tickets, for example when entering a small town speed zone where the car would take a long time to work itself down to the lower speed limit.

Then the nail in the coffin came from the Feds i.e. NHTSA. One of the issues they made Tesla "fix", in the recall from a few months ago, was this leisurely slow-down policy. I recall some reports that Tesla argued about this but lost the argument. So, I'm guessing the rate of slowdown was mandated.

Obviously this is really bad when the new speed limit is incorrect based on faulty map data - it happens to me every day in a particular spot. But people here are saying that sometimes the slowdown matches the legal requirement, yet they don't like it because the prevailing traffic doesn't honor it. I think in that case, Tesla is stuck with the NHTSA mandated behavior.

 

[fasteddie7]

This for sure is the most irritating thing about FSD. The speed limit suddenly changes but the traffic does not and suddenly the car slows 20+mph... Is there any way to adjust this (without just being hyper-prepared for the changes)?

The real issue is human drivers. imagine how confused you would be If you only knew the rules and strictly followed them and every other car you observed was doing everything but following the only rules you ever knew. One of the most challenging things must be to account for all of the unpredictable variables of human drivers. I think this alone will add years of delays for anywhere autonomous driving and keep it contained to small geofenced areas. Even when I’m driving vehicles myself ultra safely because I have a child in the back it never surprises me how selfish people are and how irresponsible they can be with taking unnecessary risks to get one car ahead and shave what likely amounts to seconds to minutes off of a non time critical trip to the grocery store. sometimes I try to justify their dangerous behavior by saying they are carrying a life saving organ to a children‘s hospital, but i end up getting to the same destination and it’s usually a big mac or lottery ticket.

 

[rlsd]

1. Sudden drop in speed limit: It's NHTSA and local government's fault. There should be sign indicating speed limit reduction ahead before new speed is imposed.
Also, often drivers don't see any new speed limit sign because it does not exist or it's too small.

2. Tesla should gradually reduce speed limit before and after the car enters the new speed zone. Also FSD should sound a ding and show a message about speed reduction on the screen before slowing down so that the user can prepare to override if desired.

 

[kabin]

1. Sudden in speed limit: It's NHTSA and local government's fault. There should be sign indicating speed limit reduction ahead before new speed is imposed.
Also, often drivers don't see any new speed limit sign because it does not exist or it's too small.

2. Tesla should gradually reduce speed limit before and after the car enters the new speed zone. Also FSD should sound a ding and show a message about speed reduction on the screen before slowing down so that the user can prepare to override if desired.

There are obvious refinements the team apparently doesn't care about even though its the expectation of most vehicle occupants and roadway users. It took a long time before they began to address hard braking and jerky steering and they still haven't perfected it. It's said they are focusing on safety but even then FSD still runs traffic lights, stop signs and dangerously pulls into oncoming traffic. FSD might be more a bit more palatable if only they could clean up their act.

 

[NYMY]

1. Sudden drop in speed limit: It's NHTSA and local government's fault. There should be sign indicating speed limit reduction ahead before new speed is imposed.
Also, often drivers don't see any new speed limit sign because it does not exist or it's too small.

2. Tesla should gradually reduce speed limit before and after the car enters the new speed zone. Also FSD should sound a ding and show a message about speed reduction on the screen before slowing down so that the user can prepare to override if desired.

Sounding an alert and flashing a message when about to drop speed relative to the prevailing traffic speed seems like a good solution (if NHTSA requires the behavior).

 

[rlsd]

There are obvious refinements the team apparently doesn't care about even though its the expectation of most vehicle occupants and roadway users. It took a long time before they began to address hard braking and jerky steering and they still haven't perfected it. It's said they are focusing on safety but even then FSD still runs traffic lights, stop signs and dangerously pulls into oncoming traffic. FSD might be more a bit more palatable if only they could clean up their act.

They don't even have driver's license.

 

[eli_]

I tried FSD 11.4.4 on Highway 101 around the Olympic peninsula. Multiple times it would abruptly lurch toward taking right-hand forks that lead off-route, like to a Weigh Station on the side of road. Maybe it thinks it's a Tesla Semi.

 

[PR0FESSOR]

I see this almost every drive; for some reason, as soon as the lane opens up, my Tesla wants to take the new lane, EVEN when it does not lead to my destination. Ugh.

Joe

 

[jabloomf1230]

Also, something else I noticed (and got footage of), not sure if this is known, but with sunglasses on, I get wheel nags considerably less. I took my sunglasses off, and immediately got nagged much more frequently. Sunglasses back on and nags died down.

I (and others both here and on reddit) have noticed the dark sunglasses trick. It definitely reduces hand nags considerably. I just got back from a round trip to Montreal and I experienced nagless episodes of 5 to 10 minutes and a few longer. It's a pleasure to drive 10 highway miles without a hand nag. The only problem is that I don't know what to do with my hands

What's baffling is what condition precipitates a nag when wearing dark sunglasses. Nag occurrence seems almost random, but it could be as simple as a slight head movement triggering a nag. I originally thought that the sunglasses trick was a bug, but now I'm leaning towards it being a feature that Tesla is evaluating with its employee testers.