FSD Beta v11.x

EVNow · May 13, 2023

Dave EV said:
I wonder if Elon's definition of "safety-critical interventions" is much higher than the typical FSD beta user. I know that I tend to disengage rather quickly. I'm sure that in nearly all cases there would not be an accident, but IMO if the car's actions cause other vehicles to need to take measures to avoid your erratic driving, it's safety critical.

No idea ... I'm also skeptical of Elon actually doing a lot of testing. He probably drives around a bit ... but with his busy schedule (and any security concerns) I doubt he actually drives all that much.

Mark II · May 13, 2023

EVNow said:
Not true. There are places that need 3 people, not two in WA. There are time restrictions in some places.

A confirmation for using HOV at the time of lane change would be good (and remember that for the rest of the drive on the road).

View attachment 937165

There are ways it could be made better:
- It should be included in the map data, i.e. HOV rules based on time. Just like any other map data. All self driving cars could take advantage of this.
- Tesla Vision should read the overhead signs that clearly state the current restrictions. Ok, less likely, but still an option.

fasteddie7 · May 13, 2023

It really seems like fsd beta uses the actual brakes pretty often. I’m used to almost never touching the actual brake and using regen in daily driving. I feel like I’m going to burn through the brakes like an ICE car. I usually see stopped traffic or a stop sign or light and gradually let off the accelerator and make a stop without ever touching the brake. FSD seem to brake too late to do this an applies the brake rather aggressively. I’m not talking about traffic that suddenly stops, I’m talking about traffic that is clearly stoped ahead. Is this everyone’s experience or does it just feel that way?

FSDtester#1 · May 13, 2023

fasteddie7 said:
It really seems like fsd beta uses the actual brakes pretty often. I’m used to almost never touching the actual brake and using regen in daily driving. I feel like I’m going to burn through the brakes like an ICE car. I usually see stopped traffic or a stop sign or light and gradually let off the accelerator and make a stop without ever touching the brake. FSD seem to brake too late to do this an applies the brake rather aggressively. I’m not talking about traffic that suddenly stops, I’m talking about traffic that is clearly stoped ahead. Is this everyone’s experience or does it just feel that way?

Unfortunately it's been that way since day one. We are all sacrificing our brakes to experience the

of beta...

JHCCAZ · May 13, 2023

fasteddie7 said:
It really seems like fsd beta uses the actual brakes pretty often. I’m used to almost never touching the actual brake and using regen in daily driving. I feel like I’m going to burn through the brakes like an ICE car. I usually see stopped traffic or a stop sign or light and gradually let off the accelerator and make a stop without ever touching the brake. FSD seem to brake too late to do this an applies the brake rather aggressively. I’m not talking about traffic that suddenly stops, I’m talking about traffic that is clearly stoped ahead. Is this everyone’s experience or does it just feel that way?

I think it's been true for a long time that FSDb tends to use the friction brakes when it doesn't really have to. I believe it was a subject of one of the release notes last year, that it would make better use of Regen. But it's still an issue as you say.

It seems like something that could be improved at any time, so maybe it's just not a big priority while they're working on more fundamental driving skills.

PR0FESSOR · May 13, 2023

In my short two-day experience, FSD has an issue with throttling back early under almost every condition, whether it is vehicles ahead, stop lights, or stop signs. Like others here, I get off the accelerator early and gradually approach areas where I need to stop. This said, I keep an eye on the regen bar, and it most instances I have noticed under FSD, the braking is regen and not friction braking. Perhaps it is a combination of both, but I see regen braking working when I remember to look at it.

Joe

fasteddie7 said:
It really seems like fsd beta uses the actual brakes pretty often. I’m used to almost never touching the actual brake and using regen in daily driving. I feel like I’m going to burn through the brakes like an ICE car. I usually see stopped traffic or a stop sign or light and gradually let off the accelerator and make a stop without ever touching the brake. FSD seem to brake too late to do this an applies the brake rather aggressively. I’m not talking about traffic that suddenly stops, I’m talking about traffic that is clearly stoped ahead. Is this everyone’s experience or does it just feel that way?

archae86 · May 13, 2023

fasteddie7 said:
FSD seem to brake too late to do this an applies the brake rather aggressively. I’m not talking about traffic that suddenly stops, I’m talking about traffic that is clearly stoped ahead. Is this everyone’s experience or does it just feel that way?

In my experience it has gotten materially better in this respect since the first release I drove almost a year ago. But, yes, it is still too late to get started on slowing down when it is "obvious" that it should.

Meanwhile, you have a mitigation available which works way better than it did on my early releases--use the right scroll wheel to dial down the target speed. Until a few releases ago, dialing down gave very modest deceleration, and you needed to dial down way in advance to get a useful effect. About two releases ago the software suddenly applied a much, much higher deceleration for this case. Now one needs to incrementally dial down the target a click at a time in order to get a reasonable profile. But it is doable in many of these circumstances.

Regarding regen or not, people who don't routinely drive looking at the max regen and braking power dials on Scan My Tesla and who live in places more level than Albuquerque may not know this, but available regen power varies enormously. Within a single drive I can see available regen power as high as 85 kW (which seems to be a flat-out max for my 2023 RWD model 3) and as low as 5 kW. Staying within regen is actually not a reasonable goal when available regen is below 20 or so, and still at least a little confining up past 40.

SpaceNuts · May 13, 2023

I just had the FSD11.4.1. I am a little surprised that I am able to get it. I am nobody and never get a new built so early before.

The following is my impression.

Overall, it is significantly better in every aspect except, and it is the big one, for safety.

I did a one hour drive immediately after I downloaded the update. It consists of 40 minutes highway and 20 minutes local. It is much more assertive. It feels more human-like. It used to have phantom brakes at 3 locations. There was none today. There were very little wheel (or yoke) jerks today. The decisions are mostly correct. I had to take interventions 3 times today, it used to be 6 or 7 times before.

Even though I took many more interventions in the older FSD versions, none of them were safety related. The old FSD was very timid and very safe. The interventions were done for curtesy.

Today, however, there were two close calls in terms of safety. One close call was averted by FSD itself. I intervened in another one.

The first close call happened when there was heavy rain and my car just entered the highway. It made an assertive lane change to the left land (good, I would have done the same). A car cut in front of me and entered the same lane. My car made a quick attempt to change to another lane to the left. Except that lane had another car behind and was accelerating. The FSD quickly changed its mind and turned back into the current lane.

I felt FSD made a wrong choice at the time. The car that cut in front of me never braked. Thus, it was not necessary for the FSD to change to the left lane again. In all fairness, it happened very quickly and under pouring rain, I might have misjudged the situation myself.

The second close call is much clearer. The FSD made a wrong choice. It was on a section of highway where there are construction going on. There are multiple lane lines. It is not clear where the lanes are. Before today, the FSD would just follow the cars ahead. Now, the FSD is more assured of itself. If it felt it was correct, it would just do it. The FSD was following the car ahead, then it suddenly wavers to the right and got into the lane to the right. There was a car in the right lane. There is enough space for my car to get in. But the car in the right lane will be surprised and would probably be mad.

I intervened and got out of FSD right away.

Overall, I felt 10.4.1 is 3 steps ahead and 1 big step back. By being more assertive, it also made it less safe. Also, I felt the speed of improvement is picking up significantly.

mhan00 · May 13, 2023

I’ve long said that Tesla needs to have the car plot multiple routes as it is driving in anticipation of possibly missing a turn or unexpected road closures forcing a deviation from the expected route. This video has a great example of why as the Tesla waits way too long to get into a turn lane and misses a series of turns as the nav updates far too slowly.

rlsd · May 13, 2023

I am not sure what to say today. I just finished a trip. My car crossed 3 (or maybe 4) lanes to merge from one main freeway to another main freeway. It's flawless. I did not expect, didn't have time to react and let it go. After being in the left most lane of the first freeway, FSD attempted to merge into the target freeway on the left but then aborted the merge because another car was coming (I saw the red color of that car on the touchscreen). FSD beeped and displayed message "lance correction" or something like (message text was too small and too short too see).
Aslo, when exited to the street, FSD changed from the right most lane to the middle lane because there was an abandoned shopping cart covered with dark clothes or blankets standing horizontally on the shoulder.

powertoold · May 13, 2023

SpaceNuts said:
By being more assertive, it also made it less safe. Also, I felt the speed of improvement is picking up significantly.

11.4.1 is quite assertive with lane changes:

Knightshade · May 13, 2023

11.3.6 can be assertive too... for example today it quickly dove into the right hand lane about a mile before I was going to need to turn right.

Sadly that was a lane that ended another 150 feet or so later in a forced right, long before I was actually going to need to turn, forcing me to hit the brakes as it was either going to just run right over the little turn island if it kept going straight or was going to turn right at the very wrong spot and at too high a speed- didn't want to find out which.

AlanSubie4Life · May 13, 2023

PR0FESSOR said:
have noticed under FSD, the braking is regen and not friction braking.

In order to see the braking, you MUST turn on “Apply Brakes When Regenerative Braking Is Limited.” Otherwise it hides it. Obviously it has nothing to do with regenerative braking being limited but that is the way it is.

Otherwise you must cover the brake gently to feel the pedal move (not practical and often the opposite of what you want).

sleepydoc · May 13, 2023

PR0FESSOR said:
In my short two-day experience, FSD has an issue with throttling back early under almost every condition, whether it is vehicles ahead, stop lights, or stop signs. Like others here, I get off the accelerator early and gradually approach areas where I need to stop. This said, I keep an eye on the regen bar, and it most instances I have noticed under FSD, the braking is regen and not friction braking. Perhaps it is a combination of both, but I see regen braking working when I remember to look at it.

Joe

Several versions ago there was discussion about this. I have the same experience and impression - that FSDb uses the friction brakes more than it needs to but the curious thing is it doesn't seem to affect the efficiency much. It's virtually impossible to do a direct comparison but I still get good efficiency (<240 Wh/mi) using FSDb even though it seems wasteful at times.

kabin · May 13, 2023

powertoold said:
11.4.1 is quite assertive with lane changes:

Yikes! Looks like one of those poor planning forces FSD a-hole move.

powertoold · May 13, 2023

kabin said:
Yikes! Looks like one of those poor planning forces FSD a-hole move.

I don't think it's a lane planning issue. People who aren't familiar with a certain area would likely do the same thing. The cars were backed up well before the left turn lane starts, occupying the suicide lane.

kabin · May 13, 2023

powertoold said:
I don't think it's a lane planning issue. People who aren't familiar with a certain area would likely do the same thing. The cars were backed up well before the left turn lane starts, occupying the suicide lane.

Maybe so but that was poor decision making. It was far too close with the cut-off vehicle initially appearing to be moving twice as fast as the ego to make the green left turn and then needed a stiff brake to avoid contact. There are much safer choices than rolling the dice like that. Lane changes shouldn't be do or die.

jebinc · May 13, 2023

Dave EV said:
Watching this video, it's pretty clear just how many times Chuck needs to manually intervene and the car is doing things that are just weird compared to normal human behavior.

Still seems like a super-odd mix of very unsafe behavior to overly cautious behavior, which reflects most of my existing experience with FSD.

It sure seems like it's a long ways off and is not making significant improvements. It may be making 5 steps forward in areas, but in other areas it takes 4 steps back.

Exactly.

Scott Chapman · May 13, 2023

Ugh! I check my car for the first time since April, and no 11.4.1! ;-)

Knightshade · May 13, 2023

Scott Chapman said:
Ugh! I check my car for the first time since April, and no 11.4.1! ;-)

It's still only 0.3% of the fleet on teslafi... vs ~27% of the fleet on 11.3.x- so I wouldn't consider remotely this a wide rollout yet

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