FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

, but here in Europe we'd kill for any FSDb version.

Of course. Would be good to have something that has been worked on lately.

The whole "FSDj" gag comes across as spoiled child talk over here

Yep.

When driving manually I also babysit my car if you want to call it that. Worse, I have to do everything!

It’s a little different than that of course. Unfortunately other than highway-like surface streets, the flaws of FSDb typically result in frequent overrides or disengagements which limits utility. Still cool but not particularly useful exactly. Very different than driving yourself. (Much more work when using FSD.) It’s not really like monitoring AP on the highway at all.

It's crippled compared to FSDb but it's really amazing once you get to know where it messes up and where you can let it do its thing.

FSD is even better on the highway. Quite capable and quite useful. Not without fault of course. But continues to improve.

 

[Yelobird]

Here is the near exact number of FSD Beta users at the time of the recall and was 362,758 This is straight from NHTSA recall. The 400,000 numberer reported was just a rounding number by the press and Elon but 362,758 was very close to the exact/legal number of FSD Beta users.

Also the recall was for FSD Beta specifically and not the total US cars with FSD Capability. Below is the first part of the recall letter I got from Tesla.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V085-3451.PDF

View attachment 961048


Dear Tesla Owner,

This notice is sent to you in accordance with the National Traffic and Motor Venice Safety Act. Tesla, Inc. has decided that a defect, which relates to motor vehicle safety exists in certain Model Year 2016-2023 Model S, Model X, 2017-
2023 Model 3, and 2020-2023 Model Y vehicles. Our records show that you are the owner of a vehicle affected by this action.

REASON FOR THIS RECALL
FSD Beta is an SAE Level 2 driver support feature that can provide steering and braking/acceleration support to the driver under certain operating limitations. When the feature is engaged, it could potentially infringe upon local traffic laws or customs while executing certain driving maneuvers in specific conditions, which could increase the risk of a collision if the driver does not intervene.

WHAT TESLA WILL DO
At no charge to you, Tesla will deploy an over-the-air ("OTA") firmware update to affected vehicles that will improve how FSD Beta negotiates certain driving maneuvers in specific conditions.

WHAT YOU SHOULD DO
Please check that your vehicle is running software version 2022.45.10 or later release, all of which contains the remedy.....

Only minor questionable data point is that it also notes “or are pending” which could be any unknown number.

 

[clydeiii]

TG AlanSubie4Life is back!!

 

[clydeiii]

Once you get your VIN enrolled in the Beta branch, it seems like a bad idea to try to convince Tesla to unenroll you. Yes, right now, you're behind the main branch in terms of features, but you can imagine a future after the Beta and Main branches are merged into a single stack, and then continue to use the VINs who are in the beta branch to beta test new features.

 

[Genie]

The whole "FSDj" gag comes across as spoiled child talk over here. Don't want it? Turn it off.

If I didn’t want it I wouldn’t have paid $10k for it. I want it to work safely.
If you haven’t driven or been driven with FSDb then you haven’t experienced it lunging for another lane, even when there is no other driving lane. Veering into a bus stop at 50+ mph. Not slowing for a down tree completely blocking the road.
”Don’t want it- turn it off” and just write off the up to $15k we have paid for a system that is still unsafe?
How about refund the purchase price until it works.

 

[JulienW]

Only minor questionable data point is that it also notes “or are pending” which could be any unknown number.

Pending just means they got the FSD Beta software downloaded but hadn't hit install yet (on vacation/OoT for instance). That would have been an extremely small percentage/number and likely WAY below 1% and could been as low as <10 cars. But they must have been included in the recall since the software was sent to their car and just waiting to be installed.

 

[jebinc]

Pending just means they got the FSD Beta software downloaded but hadn't hit install yet (on vacation/OoT for instance). That would have been an extremely small percentage/number and likely WAY below 1% and could been as low as <10 cars. But they must have been included in the recall since the software was sent to their car and just waiting to be installed.

The smart ones…

 

[Mardak]

I will feel better when they do add 11.x to 2023.26.x

Even the earliest 2023.26.1 version has FSD Beta 11.3.6, so presumably 2023.26.3 also includes it, and you can feel better?

TeslaFi and Teslascope rely on reports like these to then manually annotate that these builds include FSD Beta. Given this latest example, sometimes it can take 2 weeks to get these type of confirmation reports.

 

[FSDtester#1]

They say the first 9 is the hardest.

That's what she said...

 

[Phlier]

As compared to earlier versions:
11.4.4
Stopping: definitely less jerky pulsing stops than previously. Though I still often just disengage preemptively to avoid brake use (lots and lots of reports).

However, the stopping at stop signs occurs too slowly; needs to use full regen to a full halt. It slows down too slowly.

Going: still highly challenged. Way too slow to start at virtually any intersection. It’s rare that I can allow it to drive itself; have to press accelerator to go. Otherwise painfully slow; too slow to be useful.
It’s not the coming to a complete halt that is the issue. It is that it does not go in a timely manner.

There are a ton of stop signs where I’m at. There are also a lot of roads that lack any paint markings at all… no edge paint and no lane paint.

Since FSDb performs poorly under each condition separately, and horribly when those conditions are combined, I find myself using it far less than in the past.

Its latest behavior of not being capable of staying in a lane for more than ten seconds (yes, I have minimal lane changes selected) and playing with the turn signal like a baby with a rattle have made this version unusable for me. I also try to be a hyper polite driver, which is completely incompatible with 11.4.4 where I’m at. I’m not saying others are jerks for using it; keep in mind that geography matters a lot in how FSDb performs. So again, where I’m at, it’s relegated to uncrowded night time roads…again.

This is a huge regression for me, as I haven’t had to put a “night time empty roads” restriction on FSDb for quite awhile now.

 

[JulienW]

This is sorta an oddity. Looks like Tesla is now shipping cars with factory software that contains FSD Beta 11.3.6. Strange since it only benefits people who buy a Model 3.

Side note: We need to see some movement on 11.4.6 in the next day or two or we can assume it has died a 11.4.5 death and will be stuck waiting on 11.4.7.

 

[D Good]

Am I the only one who still thinks that creeping can sometimes be extremely unnatural and unhumanlike? It’s downright scary sometimes still. Humans don’t tend to creep so far forward when cars are obviously coming, however FSD doesn’t care weather or not it can see cars, it just creeps. Sometimes it’s jumpy on the brake pedal which only just makes things worse.

So creeping is definitely nowhere close to being solved yet really, but recent updates haven’t really addressed it at all. All of this because of the idiotic b pillar camera location

 

[kabin]

Am I the only one who still thinks that creeping can sometimes be extremely unnatural and unhumanlike? It’s downright scary sometimes still. Humans don’t tend to creep so far forward when cars are obviously coming, however FSD doesn’t care weather or not it can see cars, it just creeps. Sometimes it’s jumpy on the brake pedal which only just makes things worse.

So creeping is definitely nowhere close to being solved yet really, but recent updates haven’t really addressed it at all. All of this because of the idiotic b pillar camera location

No, I agree. It sometimes stops well short of intersections and poses well beyond crosswalks and into oncoming traffic. This form of creeping sends off the distracted driver behavior message to other vehicles. Unknown why the team added it other than to try a crutch.

I think the last two updates have been a swing and miss which isn't a good sign for a FSD product that is so lacking in so many areas.

 

[kabin]

Is nobody on 11.4.6 yet?

It seems to be another dead version not worthy of wide release. There are few 11.4.6 utube reviews that are sketchy at best.

 

[jebinc]

There are a ton of stop signs where I’m at. There are also a lot of roads that lack any paint markings at all… no edge paint and no lane paint.

Since FSDb performs poorly under each condition separately, and horribly when those conditions are combined, I find myself using it far less than in the past.

Its latest behavior of not being capable of staying in a lane for more than ten seconds (yes, I have minimal lane changes selected) and playing with the turn signal like a baby with a rattle have made this version unusable for me. I also try to be a hyper polite driver, which is completely incompatible with 11.4.4 where I’m at. I’m not saying others are jerks for using it; keep in mind that geography matters a lot in how FSDb performs. So again, where I’m at, it’s relegated to uncrowded night time roads…again.

This is a huge regression for me, as I haven’t had to put a “night time empty roads” restriction on FSDb for quite awhile now.

Yep…

 

[Tronguy]

If I didn’t want it I wouldn’t have paid $10k for it. I want it to work safely.
If you haven’t driven or been driven with FSDb then you haven’t experienced it lunging for another lane, even when there is no other driving lane. Veering into a bus stop at 50+ mph. Not slowing for a down tree completely blocking the road.
”Don’t want it- turn it off” and just write off the up to $15k we have paid for a system that is still unsafe?
How about refund the purchase price until it works.

Uh-huh. It said Beta; It said, "Does the wrong thing at the worst time."; Tesla has been pretty blame clear that FSD-b was, and isn't, a finished product.

They did promise that, at some time in the future, FSD-b would move to FSD. At which point the price would Go 'Way Up, and Tesla was clear about that, too. The general idea is paying for something unfinished at a massive discount. People do that all the time, so the concept's not new (buying a house before it's built, the obvious example.).

I'll happily concede that Tesla's estimates about when the fork can be stuck into it were off; but what do you want for a research project, which this clearly is?

Still, there hasn't been any whistle blowers from within Tesla that have come out screaming That It Can't Be Done. Although, admittedly, there's tons of people who don't work at Tesla who have opined that it can't.

People who signed up for FSD-b pretty much volunteered as testers. From the beginning, one way or another, with or without some kind of button, there's been ways of getting that feedback back to Tesla.

So, I've had some trouble thinking about the mindset of the FSD-j gang. What did they expect? Venus on the half-shell, fully formed? That's never been the way development works.

 

[PR0FESSOR]

Welcome back @AlanSubie4Life!

TG AlanSubie4Life is back!!

 

[jabloomf1230]

Here is the near exact number of FSD Beta users at the time of the recall and was 362,758 This is straight from NHTSA recall. The 400,000 numberer reported was just a rounding number by the press and Elon but 362,758 was very close to the exact/legal number of FSD Beta users.

Also the recall was for FSD Beta specifically and not the total US cars with FSD Capability. Below is the first part of the recall letter I got from Tesla.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V085-3451.PDF

View attachment 961048


Dear Tesla Owner,

This notice is sent to you in accordance with the National Traffic and Motor Venice Safety Act. Tesla, Inc. has decided that a defect, which relates to motor vehicle safety exists in certain Model Year 2016-2023 Model S, Model X, 2017-
2023 Model 3, and 2020-2023 Model Y vehicles. Our records show that you are the owner of a vehicle affected by this action.

REASON FOR THIS RECALL
FSD Beta is an SAE Level 2 driver support feature that can provide steering and braking/acceleration support to the driver under certain operating limitations. When the feature is engaged, it could potentially infringe upon local traffic laws or customs while executing certain driving maneuvers in specific conditions, which could increase the risk of a collision if the driver does not intervene.

WHAT TESLA WILL DO
At no charge to you, Tesla will deploy an over-the-air ("OTA") firmware update to affected vehicles that will improve how FSD Beta negotiates certain driving maneuvers in specific conditions.

WHAT YOU SHOULD DO
Please check that your vehicle is running software version 2022.45.10 or later release, all of which contains the remedy.....

Any US car with FSD could potentially request the beta version, hence all FSD equipped cars were covered by the recall.

 

[MP3Mike]

Any US car with FSD could potentially request the beta version, hence all FSD equipped cars were covered by the recall.

Nope, that contradicts what Tesla said: (Tesla stopped offering FSDb to new vehicles so that they didn't ever get included in the recall population.)

The only cars included are ones that have FSDb installed, or had a pending install of the software on the vehicle.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Nope, that contradicts what Tesla said: (Tesla stopped offering FSDb to new vehicles so that they didn't ever get included in the recall population.)

View attachment 961223

The only cars included are ones that have FSDb installed, or had a pending install of the software on the vehicle.

I said the same with the recall and the response was, "No way there are that many cars on Beta" and then people ran with their own narratives.