FSD discussion

[Zero CO2]

FYI - a negative news story which might be a drag tomorrow.

Video footage of Tesla FSD failing miserably (changing lanes and braking in a clear multi lane tunnel) and causing a 9 car nose-to-tail.

Exclusive: Surveillance Footage of Tesla Crash on SF’s Bay Bridge Hours After Elon Musk Announces "Self-Driving" Feature

Elon Musk has said Tesla’s problematic autopilot features are “really the difference between Tesla being worth a lot of money or worth basically zero.”

theintercept.com

here is what i see in video

1) Tesla pulls over into left lane signaled well in advance and stopped abruptly. ( we don't know why the car stopped , he claimed it was the cars fault, i call BS)
2) Car behind was travelling fast , did not brake in time, hit Tesla ( his fault)
3) other cars not leaving safe stopping distance also crashed (their fault)
3) Case closed

 

[Discoducky]

In addition, I would say that it was a good example of 7 vehicles that either don't have AEB or the AEB system they have isn't very good. (I think it looked like some of them slowed down and had minimal impact, but some of them didn't appear to slow down at all.)

Assuming that there wasn't a mechanical/electrical failure of the lead Tesla there were 8 drivers in a row "asleep" at the wheel.

I'd move all these posts to the FSD thread if I could...and reply in that thread.

 

[SOULPEDL]

here is what i see in video

1) Tesla pulls over into left lane signaled well in advance and stopped abruptly. ( we don't know why the car stopped , he claimed it was the cars fault, i call BS)
2) Car behind was travelling fast , did not brake in time, hit Tesla ( his fault)
3) other cars not leaving safe stopping distance also crashed (their fault)
3) Case closed

In court, yes. In reality, not quite.

 

[cab]

In court, yes. In reality, not quite.

Correct...that pic of the crash scene with the baby stroller sitting there is a litigation lawyer's dream come true. Only thing better would have been a crying toddler standing next to it. Ugh.

 

[Zero CO2]

Correct...that pic of the crash scene with the baby stroller sitting there is a litigation lawyer's dream come true. Only thing better would have been a crying toddler standing next to it. Ugh.

you guys are watching too much " Better Call Saul"

 

[thesmokingman]

you guys are watching too much " Better Call Saul"
View attachment 894523

That stroller was probably placed there or framed on purpose. The whole frame is a canvas.

 

[insaneoctane]

In court, yes. In the media reality, not quite.

FIFY

 

[SOULPEDL]

Correct...that pic of the crash scene with the baby stroller sitting there is a litigation lawyer's dream come true. Only thing better would have been a crying toddler standing next to it. Ugh.

Stroller was not just sitting there, it was placed there in front of the vehicles who's child occupant was injured, as far as I can deduce.

I'm gonna come in with an even better headline... it's media open season still, right?

Tesla Runs out of Juice, 8-car pileup! ​

(Hidden Disclaimer - Technically, it does not run on Juice.)

 

[JRP3]

Another lawsuit, I'm not sure how phantom braking leads to this outcome:

Colonel, according to the lawsuit, was stranded on the side of the road due to the defect.

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2023/01/10/tesla-lawsuit-braking-defect-elon-musk-autopilot.html

A pair of Tesla (Nasdaq: TSLA) owners in the Triangle are suing Elon Musk's electric vehicle company, claiming Tesla knew about a costly brake defect but sold them vehicles anyway.


Michael Costello of Wake County and Megan Colonel of Durham County filed a federal lawsuit over defects they claim they discovered in their Teslas. The lawsuit, posed as a class action complaint, surrounds an “unintended braking defect” tied to the autopilot system where the vehicles detect non-existent obstacles, triggering the cars to abruptly decelerate or stop completely.

 

[EVNow]

The bag of bits is the FSD version of the software.

LOL - dude I'm in the IT industry for 30 years ?

AP/NOA on freeways uses old NN architecture. Not FSD.

V11 will bring that new NN FSD architecture to freeways.

 

[JRP3]

So does Autopilot/NOA actually turn off in tunnels? And if so how far into a tunnel, immediately?

 

[SOULPEDL]

Let me (try to) be more succinct - and tied to this thread.

I believe this pile-up accident example gives legs to a new revenue stream for Tesla. It's somewhere between full FSD purchased and Leased, broken down into hours and minutes. Maybe it's an old idea, but how much would an exec pay to be able to work (or nap) on their way to work, bad hangover say? In the moment of sleepiness, I bet they'd drop $20-$100 as a single impulse buy through the App, ride-time dependent. Some might consider this a form of bailout, but we all know there's no free ride (unless we're talking Johnny Winter).

I believe inattentiveness protection could be sold by the minute. The first 3 min are free and are called "safety features" as standard equipment (5+ Stars). Should they abuse it, insurance goes up (penalty) and the vehicle simply pulls over if you didn't pay and take a nap (punishment). So how much would you pay for that accident NOT to happen because you subscribed in this new way and bought an hour of time? I could see a system for pay as you go, in car. Accumulate "free-time" for paying more attention (reward). Just buy FSD and save in the long run... safety could become the most costly aspect of driving in the near future.

 

[johnnycnote]

So does Autopilot/NOA actually turn off in tunnels? And if so how far into a tunnel, immediately?

This has not been my experience. In and out of the Lincoln Tunnel to Manhattan several times with no indication that anything turning off

 

[willow_hiller]

So does Autopilot/NOA actually turn off in tunnels? And if so how far into a tunnel, immediately?

Not in my experience. I've taken the Baltimore-Harbor Tunnel a few times on NoA.

That being said, it looks like the SF Bay Bridge might also charge a toll? I've seen NoA disable with a message like "Tollbooth Detected" before.

 

[Knightshade]

Another lawsuit, I'm not sure how phantom braking leads to this outcome:

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2023/01/10/tesla-lawsuit-braking-defect-elon-musk-autopilot.html

Amusingly, she appears to work for... a green energy company

Megan Colonel | Leyline Renewable Capital

Megan Colonel is the technical services manager at Leyline Renewable Capital, which invests in the development, construction and financing of sophisticated renewable energy projects.

leylinecapital.com

 

[jerry33]

Let me (try to) be more succinct - and tied to this thread.

I believe this pile-up accident example gives legs to a new revenue stream for Tesla. It's somewhere between full FSD purchased and Leased, broken down into hours and minutes. Maybe it's an old idea, but how much would an exec pay to be able to work (or nap) on their way to work, bad hangover say? In the moment of sleepiness, I bet they'd drop $20-$100 as a single impulse buy through the App, ride-time dependent. Some might consider this a form of bailout, but we all know there's no free ride (unless we're talking Johnny Winter).

I believe inattentiveness protection could be sold by the minute. The first 3 min are free and are called "safety features" as standard equipment (5+ Stars). Should they abuse it, insurance goes up (penalty) and the vehicle simply pulls over if you didn't pay and take a nap (punishment). So how much would you pay for that accident NOT to happen because you subscribed in this new way and bought an hour of time? I could see a system for pay as you go, in car. Accumulate "free-time" for paying more attention (reward). Just buy FSD and save in the long run... safety could become the most costly aspect of driving in the near future.

The problem with this is that those who really need it are the least likely to purchase it.

 

[SOULPEDL]

The problem with this is that those who really need it are the least likely to purchase it.

Why is this a problem? They were never going to purchase it anyway (as it stands today). I'm simply proposing more granularity in the offering for those who can't afford even the leased FSD version, like all those Hertz/Tesla/Uber drivers out there. I could totally see one of them getting it for a few minutes of nap time, here and there. I mean, isn't that why companies split share price, to allow more access to retail?

 

[SOULPEDL]

To me it looked like the classic case of everyone driving too fast and only 1-2 car lengths apart. Even if everyone was fully alert, human reaction time wouldn’t save them.

If only there were a way to control car spacing according to speed? /s

(Edit: ...and road conditions, and lane complexity, merging vehicles, visibility. Competitions has a long way to go to catch up to Tesla.)

 

[FSDtester#1]

You can see the video. The car is at speed, changes lanes and drifts to a stop. Driver NEVER seems to try to accelerate, even after the initial vehicle strike. I'd bet good money he was watching a movie on his phone or asleep.

My best guess is a tsla shareholder was the driver, was watching tsla stock price in the car in real time and passed out. /s

 

[Knightshade]

Until one day soon Insurance requires purchasing it.

I'm unaware of any car insurance, ever, requiring purchase of any optional safety feature.

Certainly they might offer discounts for those that have them--- but you can still insure old cars that don't even have seatbelts today- let alone ones without newer safety features like ABS or airbags or AEB (some of which were optional for years and never "required" by insurance)