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FSD discussion
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
Anything commercially avalible used in blue cruise and mache, or others using their AEB and lane keep assit. I can't compare to their vaporware that only exist in youtube company videos
EVNow
Well-Known Member
You are conflating two things. The Mobileye chip & perception software that are in systems like blue cruise, supercruise 1.0, driving assistant pro, propilot , etc cost around $30-45. Its not the BOM but the cost to the OEM.
What however we are referencing to is the full system offering from Mobileye. The first one being door to door L2 (supervision) which has the same features as Tesla FSD or L3 Highway (Mobileye Chauffeur).
Their Supervision has 11 8-mega-pixels cameras and uses 2x EyeQ5 or 2xEye6 and cost under $1k BOM according to Mobileye.
I don't know how much Mobileye is selling the full system to OEM, but i know Chinese OEM are selling the system to end users for $5k.
I'm not sure how you believe Tesla is going to undercut that after selling their system for up to $15k.
Or do you believe Tesla will sell it to their customers for $15,000 but to OEMs for $1,500?
Tesla can charge whatever they want. So far Tesla have been gifting chinese customers the hardware for 0 dollars and have yet to change that strategy even though 99% don't want fsd for the past 5 years. Why? Cause their gross margins are 30+% there and will increase by 1%% if they stop gifting the hardware. And this is a company who pick up pennies on everything except for this.
Thats even more reason to ask why they not getting any license win? Why is mobileye winning all of them?
The narrative is strong and continues...
These people don't understand that there's a big difference between allowing your car to be able to fill up at BP or Shell stations at no extra cost by installing an adapter on the car or selling it separately to your customers. Compared to having to change the entire frame of a car and design it from the factory to house 11 cameras at specific angles, a high performance compute board and wiring needed all throughout the car to connect to the cameras/radars/lidar/compute/battery. Then the additional work that has to be done by the third party (mobileye or tesla) to support each of the model that the OEM is installing the tech on. Think about how cybertruck still doesn't have FSD or even basic AP. Tesla would have to assign dozens of engineers to support these OEM models. And that's just one model that Tesla is struggling to support. Compare that to the 30+ models Mobileye is licensed to support?
This isn't some free lunch that adopting supercharger was for both parties (Especially for Tesla). This takes very close collaboration and validation.
Another angle is that if an OEM is currently working on a next gen ADAS system with 500 engineers, they would have to fire all of them if they were trying to adopt the Tesla FSD permanently for example. This isn't like adding a port adapter.
So its easy to say "everyone will license Tesla like they did the supercharger" or "Tesla can charge whatever they want".
If you don't actually know or care about the facts and details.
Like I said, it's painful for competitors, especially one that is predicting your demise, to allow their branding into your car. Also many just believes over sensoring a car is safer. Tesla has the opposite approach which is counter intuitive from a common sense standpoint, hence many will die on the lidar/radar hill.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
TBF, even Chuck Cook thinks the current cameras are insufficient for L4 or L5 driving due to the poor side visibility of the B-pillar cams.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
I agree with Chuck, but Tesla has pulled off miracles before. Here's a possible reason why Tesla hasn't implemented a headlight assembly with a side-facing camera:
US20030214584A1 - Side and rear vision enhancement for vehicles - Google Patents
A system that enables enhanced vision while driving a vehicle generally three respects: (1) extended vision in front and perpendicular to the vehicle, (2) rearward vision without the “blind” spots caused by mirrors and (3) rear detection of faster oncoming traffic. A pair of side view cameras...
patents.google.com
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Unless they're adding an x-ray filter to the existing B-pillar I'm not sure how you solve "view blocked by solid object"
Possibly you missed this on your link regarding the status of that application
Status: Abandoned
The other way around blind spots is have the vehicle make a right instead of a left. Or avoid certain areas. And maybe every L5 approved route will first need to be traveled manually (like pre mapping) but not as high def.
And that abandoned patent just expired last year too. I was thinking Tesla would add another camera to the side blinker location.
And that abandoned patent just expired last year too. I was thinking Tesla would add another camera to the side blinker location.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
Good catch, but I have a feeling it might have been abandoned due to another existing patent. I did find a few more similar patents, but I'm not that interested in looking into the details.
The concept of embedding a side-facing camera in a headlight is so simple, I'm amazed that Tesla hasn't implemented it. Even if the camera would get obscured, in combination with the B Pillar camera, such a design would have to be an improvement. Bandwidth could be a consideration, but Tesla has added a front-facing camera to the front of some models, so there must be some available bandwidth.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Avoid an area perhaps, but right instead of left doesn't fix if your view to the left (ie oncoming traffic) is obscured by trees/fences/etc.... Chuck has shown this in videos... Tesla tries to patch this with creep but in some examples it has to creep into active traffic to see far enough.
Also there's no such thing as "L5 approved route"
The very definition of L5 is it can drive anywhere a human reasonably can- no exceptions.
If there's any limitations at all then it's max L4.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
Ha, it's not what a Tesla needs, but here's a commercial version for offroading:
PROJECT X - ELITE OPTX
Light the way and record your adventure with the PROJECT X ELITE OPTX headlights. Featuring a pair of integrated UHD cameras, the ELITE OPTX allows you to view your travels in true 4K UHD. With our OEM fitment and quality combined with an impressive 3000 raw lumen output (high beam) the ELITE...
projectxoffroad.com
The camera faces forward.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
So if you drift around corners it works? That's... not a great solution.
I'd suggest you watch the videos Chuck Cook has done on this specific issue where he mounts cameras exterior to the car then does turns at obstructed intersections- showing both the cars inadequate camera views vs. ones mounted elsewhere.
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