You, correctly, pointed out to someone else that the fact that they were not experiencing the issues you reported doesn't mean they didn't happen. Surely, you must realize that goes the other way as well?
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Autopilot 2.0 is dangerous
- Thread starter Tribaltech
- Start date
You, correctly, pointed out to someone else that the fact that they were not experiencing the issues you reported doesn't mean they didn't happen. Surely, you must realize that goes the other way as well?
Eyes are always on the road and hands are always on the wheel, especially when I turn on AP 2.0. But for an expensive car like the Model S you expect at least a product/feature that will not make you feel unerved or scared. And that is my problem with it. Beta is something that is a work in progress and is buggy. Beta does not mean a feature that can potentially cause you bodily injury. This is not a smartphone update where the app froze and caused you annoyance. This is a bloody car for crying out loud. My relative has a brand new RAV4 Hybrid with Its Safety Sense package with lane change assist and automatic braking and TACC and I have to say I felt much safer the couple times I drove it on the highway with its TACC than I do with my Model S. Believe it or not.
I do realize it and I appreciate you pointing it out to me. All I am saying is that I find suspect that in spite of something being in "beta" mode and not working fully well as Tesla itself claims, I am struggling with wrapping my head around how folks are feeling "very happy" with it? The company has not even rolled out the fully baked version of the AP 2.0 and the fact that people are super happy with it perhaps makes me jealous lol?! I do have seen over many YouTube videos and TMC forum posts that there is an off-the-charts fandom for Tesla unlike anything else I have seen with other products but at some point we need to start being a bit objective. Especially when it involves a car, highway speeds and a ton of money. Thats all.
Understood. I think the main reason for the disparity is that you put "very happy" and not that "it's perfect". I put very happy for reasons I mentioned earlier. Autopilot, for me at least, has made many drives that were absolutely terrible before easy and, dare I say, fun. That makes me really happy, even if there are a lot of things I want to see improved.
I certainly wouldn't say it's anywhere near perfect. I doubt anyone else here would either.
When I took delivery of may S-90D on March 31st, I was pretty happy with auto-steer when it was activated the next day. Don't dare to use it on local streets with all those dancing random lines but activated it on highways and it seems decent. A bit iffy on curves but overall was pretty impressed. It is something that I activate and say to my self, "wow this is very cool". My car went into service on day 4 and I had been driving an AP1 loaner since. I was blown away at how solid AP1 is. My memories of AP2 is fleeting but it was an interesting novelty, kind of like watching a toddler walk for the first time "wow, good for you Timmy, be careful now...". AP1 was rock solid and something I actually use and depend on almost every day.
I now fully see why some are disappointed where AP2 is at right now. I do hope Tesla continues to make improvements and AP2 will be back at parity with AP2 within the next few months and become enhanced after that.
I now fully see why some are disappointed where AP2 is at right now. I do hope Tesla continues to make improvements and AP2 will be back at parity with AP2 within the next few months and become enhanced after that.
I'm very curious to understand why your car went into the shop on day 4? Do you mind sharing? Thanks
On curvy freeways with freeflowing traffic on either side, YES AP2 is quite dangerous, I would take over and not let it drive
On fairly straight freeways with boring traffic, its perfectly fine and safe in my experience and I would use it all day long.
During stop go traffic, it works great
This alone can explain the difference between folks saying happy and folks saying unhappy.
Example for those in Bay area: AP2 at speed limit in traffic over Sunol on I-680 is a nightmare, absolute bonkers,
OTOH , AP2 on I-880 to say Fremont is quite alright
That said I completely agree that there should be a BASIC cruise control capability, without any EAP,AS stuff, just straightforward, press at the speed you want and +/- as you please. This should be included by default.
On fairly straight freeways with boring traffic, its perfectly fine and safe in my experience and I would use it all day long.
During stop go traffic, it works great
This alone can explain the difference between folks saying happy and folks saying unhappy.
Example for those in Bay area: AP2 at speed limit in traffic over Sunol on I-680 is a nightmare, absolute bonkers,
OTOH , AP2 on I-880 to say Fremont is quite alright
That said I completely agree that there should be a BASIC cruise control capability, without any EAP,AS stuff, just straightforward, press at the speed you want and +/- as you please. This should be included by default.
That's been my experience too. Driving with AP2 reminds me of driving with my teenagers as they did their first solos. Happy to do it, but constantly on edge waiting for something terrible to happen.
While I am not happy with AP 2.0, especially locally, I can't say that it is completely useless or dangerous. I couldn't have done my Chicago to New York trip in Easter (either leg) without 80mph AS). It worked great on that trip and it (and the car) made the trip comfortable despite construction and other conditions. I am unhappy it requires the level of supervision it does and is still limited in features and quality as compared to AP1 but it is not useless.
I trust AP2 probably more than I should. However, I find that I can concentrate (and enjoy) way more whatever else I'm doing in the car with EAP engaged - whether that's listening to podcasts, taking calls, enjoying the scenery, listening to music etc. If anything the biggest plus of EAP is that I arrive to my destination UNFAZED by stop and go traffic. Living in the Bay Area means at any given time 101 / 280 are complete disasters when it comes to any sort of commute, yet I find myself grinning when I get to work instead of pissed off at the world. That alone to me is worth more than what I paid for both EAP + FSD combined.
I think Autopilot has the potential to not only be extremely useful but also to be lifesaving. A lot of people need some assistance with driving that you'd never know just from looking at them.
People buy Teslas for different reasons. Some want a great driver's car, some want the tech/driver assist features, and some want an EV. Most people considered a combination of those. I don't think it's safe to assume that other Tesla owners bought their car for the same reason you did.
Personally, I bought mine mostly for the tech (AP2). I've been fairly happy with AP@ since 8.1. It still has some quirks, but I wouldn't go as far as saying it's unsafe (assuming an alert driver at the wheel). It still has a way to go, but I'm happy I'll be along for the ride.
In my opinion, automobile autonomy will be the next big paradigm shift in the industry. If Tesla gets there first, it will be tremendous for them. Just because you aren't interested in autonomous driving doesn't mean that millions (perhaps even billions) of people aren't. Consider the elderly. Consider people with disabilities. And most of all, consider people who do not enjoy their daily commute. That's an awful lot of people!
My daily commute is 40-50 miles each way and TACC/Autosteer is on for most of the freeway portions. I'm "quite happy" with the features as it makes the 1.5 hour commutes more tolerable. I've only had the car for 4 months and it's a huge improvement over my previous car (2011 Nissan Maxima - similar size and power). I also got to drive my sister's 2017 Acura MDX with lane assist and adaptive cruise control on a long road trip but still prefer AP2 over it. YMMV but I don't feel it's dangerous.
Barensn
Member
I just returned from a 2,000 mile trip from San Jose to Salt Lake City with AP 2. Went up via Reno on 80 and returned thru Las Vegas route. 1,800 miles of freeway with speeds between 65 and 80. Not once did I need to take control from autosteer. Not once. Many curves and many mountains. A couple hundred miles in rain and strong winds in the desert. About 300 miles in darkness. I felt very comfortable the entire trip. Autosteer and TACC both worked far better than I expected. My car is a S75D and is the best for this trip that I have taken about 50 times. Loving this car so far, 4,500 miles.
@Barensn You drove past hundreds of exits and never had the car mis-behave once? AP2 is pretty solid for me when the lanes are all normal, but it will often do something odd when an exit lane starts to appear or the road splits somehow. I'd say I have to grab control once every 10 exit ramps on average. Just yesterday twice in 20 miles it tried to split the lane as it widened for an exit and aimed me straight at the dividing barrier.
Pretty interesting that you claim to have made it about 1,500 miles without a single error, when most people get an error every 10 miles or so in an urban environment. Or is this just a case where you turned it off proactively when you went through busy areas like Sacramento and Reno?
Pretty interesting that you claim to have made it about 1,500 miles without a single error, when most people get an error every 10 miles or so in an urban environment. Or is this just a case where you turned it off proactively when you went through busy areas like Sacramento and Reno?
Other then crazy curve in Cleveland and tons of construction in Indiana, and superchargers, I was able to continuously use AP2 for 680 miles of interstates. Never took or drifted towards an exit though it will do that occasionally when not on road trips.
I've only been on one road trip though. Somehow it's worse where there are thousands of Tesla cars...
I've only been on one road trip though. Somehow it's worse where there are thousands of Tesla cars...
Barensn
Member
I did not have any problems with exists at all. I did notice in Utah they have dash lines that contine thru the exit BTW. That is a good idea. No sweat in Reno, Sacramento. None in Salt Lake, Provo or the dreaded Las Vegas. Maybe just lucky? Again I swear zero corrects. I cannot be the only one.
I have several hundred miles on AP2. In its current form and as of the date of this post, AP2 is extremely dangerous. It is dangerous enough that I worry someone will get killed using it. On straight highways in the middle lane, it works OK. It does tend to hunt the lane constantly though (with slight left/right oscillation on the wheel constantly) which is annoying and disconcerting to passengers.
On moderate curves, it tends to not take them smoothly, but in a jerky fashion by turning some, then getting close to the outer lane marker, then turning some more, then repeating. It cannot look ahead far enough to determine the radius of the curve.
At times, it will completely miss a curve (even at freeway speed) for unknown reason. This can cause a fatal accident. I have had it become completely disoriented when cresting a hill with sunlight as well. I've had it slam on the brakes when it sees a car in an adjacent lane around a curve and mistakenly thinks the car is in my lane.
Honestly, I think AP2 is an utter embarrassment for Tesla and puts them at serious risk for product liability in addition to the class action suit already in progress against them. A stupid "beta" warning won't help them if someone gets killed.
USE WITH EXTREME CAUTION!
On moderate curves, it tends to not take them smoothly, but in a jerky fashion by turning some, then getting close to the outer lane marker, then turning some more, then repeating. It cannot look ahead far enough to determine the radius of the curve.
At times, it will completely miss a curve (even at freeway speed) for unknown reason. This can cause a fatal accident. I have had it become completely disoriented when cresting a hill with sunlight as well. I've had it slam on the brakes when it sees a car in an adjacent lane around a curve and mistakenly thinks the car is in my lane.
Honestly, I think AP2 is an utter embarrassment for Tesla and puts them at serious risk for product liability in addition to the class action suit already in progress against them. A stupid "beta" warning won't help them if someone gets killed.
USE WITH EXTREME CAUTION!
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